Fascism or communism? - TranceAddict Forums

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-- Fascism or communism?

Posted by Hi-Voltage on Jan-15-2003 15:20:

Fascism or communism?

Choose the better from 2 shit

Posted by AcidAngel on Jan-15-2003 16:07:

neither

Posted by KandyKid_420 on Jan-15-2003 16:58:

Ill take Fascism ATM jsut because i am unemployed and when Hitler/Mussolini were in power, their number one (or high atleast) priority was to give everyone of their follwers jobs.

But on a normal day, communism, just because Stalin has cool quotes

Posted by Coup on Jan-15-2003 17:15:

whatism?

Posted by jp on Jan-15-2003 17:41:

Stalin killed more people than Hitler did...

Posted by pnuemo on Jan-16-2003 06:54:

im gonna have to say fascism

Posted by Odyne on Jan-16-2003 12:21:

I just had an exam on Stalin.. OMG that man killed far more people than Hitler did.. and anyway, with communism (especially with Stalin on the lead) your not safe of any position.. as a farmer you life a bad life.. but whenever you get a higher position you do get more privileges, but you are also less safe.. do one little thing wrong and you'll be killed, disposed, gotten rid off.. but than again.. Stalin didn't really have communism, that was more his goal.. he was more a socialist.. so he isn't a good example..

With facism.. just make sure your on the site of the state and you still have a possibility of living a 'safe' life..

actually both suck..

Posted by DJ Mikey Mike on Jan-17-2003 00:33:

Facism. well both suck, but Communism is clearly shitter

Posted by TranceGiant on Jan-17-2003 14:37:

quote:
Originally posted by jploveparade
Stalin killed more people than Hitler did...

yeah but Hitler's motives were more evil.
Whatever, both are fucked up but while communism is derived from a basically acceptable ideology, Marxism, Fascism is completely sick.

Posted by PeacefulWarrior on Jan-17-2003 21:31:

Easy, ...communism.

Posted by Mental Exodus on Jan-18-2003 15:12:

OK the true form of communiznm with all tha Markxist beliefs is actually a prety cool idea. Its kinda what our democracy if slowly moving towards now in a few ways. So I say Communizm.

Posted by m0sh on Jan-19-2003 22:07:

quote:
Originally posted by AcidAngel
neither

what she said

Posted by DrUg_Tit0 on Jan-23-2003 15:49:

I can't believe that facism is in the lead! WTF??? You people obviously think that communism=Stalin. Well, first of all, it doesn't. Before Lenin died, he specifically said that Stalin should not be elected as a new party leader. Stalin however, after Lenin died, stole the written proof of that Lenin's wish and killed those who knew about it. Then he killed all the communists which didn't agree with him. The fact that Stalin turned communism into a strict oppresive regime, doesn't mean that communism itself is that. It's like saying that democracy is a bad system and taking Iraq for example. The system there is capitalist, and Saddam did get in power through democratic elections. He also enacts elections every now and then, but we all now that those elections are very manipulated. But it is a democracy. Let's also not forget that as soon as communists came to power in Russia, they retreated from the WW1. The main reason Hitler was killing communists was because they did not want the war. Additionally, I may note, it is true that Stalin did kill more people than Hitler did, but Stalin ruled his country 5 times longer than Hitler.

Now, that we have gone past the leaders, who can make any system look good or bad, let's look at the systems themselves, and their ideologies:

Communism:
The basis of communism is equality and workers rights. Communism rised in working class environments during times of great and prosperous capitalism. The reason it has arisen is that the working class was very opressed and their rights weren't regulated. That led to the idea that the factories should be controlled by workers, and that they themselves should regulate their working conditions. It developed into idea that there shouldn't be private property, but that all property instead is ruled by the community as a whole, and that everyone's needs will be supplied. Considering how much money is in the hand of the factory owners, if that would be split up equally, everybody would be living in more or less satisfactory conditions. The rich people would be hurt here, but it is a necessity so that we all live decent lives. The communist ideas were especially successful in russia, because it was still ruled by the royal family. And as we all know, royalty itself is useless, inefficient, and money consuming, while the system is grossly unfair, granting people exclusive rights based on their ancestry.
Now, the system has a few flaws. Firs and major one, basically the one because of which the system failed was lack of competition. It started out nicely, with all those russian five year plans getting finished ahead of time, as it was running on good will of the people from the working class. But after some time, the people got lazy, it was obvious that they aren't going to be harmed by doing less work than they should, and so it became a stagnant system, where most of the people became parasites of the society. Also, here we have to add the opressive leader Stalin, who definitely diminished the will of the people to do anything.

Fascism:
Now, let's see how fascism, and its more important version, nazism, appeared. Basically, the same applies to both, but I'm gonna talk more about the nazism, because it had greater importance. To understand the whole situation behind it we must go back to 1848. That was the year when most of Europe was in turmoil, because of internal struggles between the peasants and the leaders. In Germany and Italy, which were at that time divided into many small kingdoms and dominions, the revolution lead to the formation of large new countries. Now, the old countries, like England and Spain, had many colonies throughout the world. The newlyformed Italy and Germany didn't. Since the colonies were the obvious advantage, the two tried to get as many as they could, but most of the world was already taken, so they had to satisfy themselfes with the few that were left. That sort of put them into positions of being natural allies, although they didn't become that before the WW2. Italy thought that it would be better off on the allied side. Austria here, had no colonies as well, so it was more or less with the two. The other countries, didn't like the newly formed nations' ambitions, and that lead to Germany and Austria forming an alliance, and after the assasination of the Austrian prince in Bosnia (howdy neighbours!), due to the series of wrong decisions, they got themselves into a war. As we all know, they lost the war, Austria fell apart, and the people of both countries weren't very happy about it. But the real problem is that the winners imposed huge war reparations on them, especially on Germany, and the germans had a hard time paying back, especially because they lacked colonies, and therefore lacked resources as well. The reparations were, however, being payed, and it looked like it's going to be solved, until 1929 and the world economic crises. Germany was hit the hardest, and additionaly, France occupied the Ruhr region, which was the basis of the german industrial potential. The total economic downfall of Germany, together with the french occupation of its most prized region, lead to huge unsatisfaction amongst people, and that got Hitler into power, because he promised to give the germans back what belongs to them, and even add a bit more to that. But to do that, Hitler needed money. And only jews had lots of money at that time. So, naturally, came the idea to remove the jews, get their money, and get even with the winners of the war. Italy, which was on the allied side during WW1, got dissapointed when it got nothing of it, so that led to the rise of fascism and joining the german cause.

While the reasons for fascism and nazism to get into power (and the system wasn't much different from Stalins communism, even it's name, national socialism, suggests a nationalist version of socialism) are justifiable and right, the system itself definitely isn't. That is because of it's ideology. It's ideology states that Germans are uberhumans, the peak of human evolution, and that they are predestined to rule the earth. The other races are there only to serve the germans, especially the slavic ones. So the idea was to kill the jews, get their money, then conquer slavic nations, mainly Poland and Russia, and get them to work for Germany.

So basically, the communist ideology is peace and equal rights for everyone, while the fascist is war and world domination by the chosen race.

Finally, kandykid, you obviously don't know much about communism because it is all about workers, their jobs, and their rights. Promotion of those things was not just a priority in communism, it was communism.

So please, all of you, try to differentiate between the system and the leaders who enact it.

Posted by TranceGiant on Jan-23-2003 16:09:

Just kidding, drug_tito! I wholeheartedly agree wtih you. The difference between you and me , however, is that you can be arsed to deliver a careful thorough elaboration while i cant Anyway Im also pretty shocked, that many Americans are apparently so brainwashed (subconscious cold-war heritage) that the word "communism" provokes paranoia-attacks

Posted by DJ Mikey Mike on Jan-23-2003 18:25:

quote:
Originally posted by TranceGiant
yeah but Hitler's motives were more evil.

how did u come to that conclusion.

Posted by TranceGiant on Jan-23-2003 19:13:

Stalin's killings were indirect products of his policy or political murders as part of his oprressive rule. While I dont try to justify that in any way, Hitler's killings were far more "evil" as they were "industrialized" and 100% controlled with the goal of wiping out entire RACES!
thats the difference.

Posted by m0sh on Jan-24-2003 06:49:

quote:
Originally posted by TranceGiant
Stalin's killings were indirect products of his policy or political murders as part of his oprressive rule. While I dont try to justify that in any way, Hitler's killings were far more "evil" as they were "industrialized" and 100% controlled with the goal of wiping out entire RACES!
thats the difference.

yeah...