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TOTA's being primary MEN who are studying something COMPUTER related ..

wells .. i came across this article on itworld.ca and it just goes over the current trend about how the tech industry is still being predominantly dominated by males. It might also give some insight on the demographics of TOTA .. (specifically the fact that it's comprised mostly of males who are all studying something computer or technology related.)

http://www.itworld.ca/portals/porta...29A8A5631C2A46E

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Canada�s IT workforce young, male: study
Ryan B. Patrick
ComputerWorld Canada

After 20 years, Karen Lopez had hoped things would have changed.

Lopez, a Toronto-based IT consultant, still sees women and minorities occupying a relatively small portion of IT jobs.

"I would have expected that there would be more diversity viewpoints," Lopez said. "Certainly I�ve worked with quite a diverse workforce but I would say that it�s not as common."

Coupled with the current economic downturn and an apparent decline of enrolment in post-secondary IT programs, things don�t appear to be changing any time soon.

Lopez� thinking falls in line with the Ottawa-based Software Human Resource Council�s (SHRC) recent Labour Force Survey 2000-2002. The report discovered IT jobs are still predominately staffed by male workers � fewer than one-quarter of workers are female.

Prepared for SHRC and Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC) by economist William G. Wolfson, the sector council�s report, Analysis of Labour Force Data for the Information Technology Occupations, looks at trends in the Canadian IT labour market.

It describes IT trends including the size of the labour force and the unemployment rate for the entire IT workforce, comprised of 17 occupations, and for each of five IT occupational groups (managers, engineers, analysts, programmers and technicians).

According to Lee Jacobs, SHRC Labour Market Studies researcher, the study is more of a statistical tool rather than a sociological one.

Specifically, Canada�s IT workforce, according to SHRC, is populated mostly with younger, college-educated males. Almost three-quarters of all IT workers are concentrated within Ontario and Quebec. Ontario alone is home to more than half of the total workforce.

IT is a young occupation, the report found, with 44 per cent of workers under 35 years of age. An additional 36 per cent of workers are in the 35 to 44 age group, with just 20 per cent in the 45 plus category.

While it depends on the industry, Lopez said in her experience, the bleeding-edge professions tend to draw younger workers. "I find that the more technology-related the company is, the younger the workforce," Lopez noted.

Males have even greater dominance in engineering jobs, according to SHRC, where they comprise almost 90 per cent of the workforce, and it noted that females have above average representation in the analyst and technician fields.

Lopez has noticed a decline of females, particularly in her field of data analysis. "It has been changing and I would expect it to change, I�m just not happy with the way it�s been changing," Lopez said.

Jacobs concedes that the current workforce makeup has apparently remained static. "Anecdotally, we�ve known that it�s been the same for some time. There are clearly issues that we want to look at and the national survey should cover that," Jacobs said. The SHRC report doesn�t delve into specifics surrounding age, gender or ethnic diversity � Jacobs said factors such as these will be addressed in a national study due to be completed by the end of the year.

Adds Lopez, "I am a strong believer that technology should be designed in a way that has diverse viewpoints because of the risk we have that it might only try to solve the problems of a majority viewpoint."

In all, the study reveals that Canada�s IT labour force climbed from about 410,000 workers at the beginning of 2000 through to mid-2001 when it exceeded 440,000 workers. From mid-2001 onwards the workforce was in flux, dropping back to year 2000 levels by the end of that year.

As of last summer, the number jumped to 420,000 workers. The unemployment rate for all 17 IT occupations has ranged from a low of two per cent late in 2000 to more than five per cent by mid-summer 2002, after dipping to below four per cent in the spring of 2002, the report found.

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Don't see the point of that article..

As far as the amount of girls in computer related fields.. When I got into CS(computer science) program at UW, only about 10-20% of students in CS were girls.. In MC(math and computer) building where I spend most of my time, there were very few girls when I was in first year. Most of them weren't that great looking too, but that's not the point. Now, 2.5 years later, there are WAY WAY more girls in MC(even though total number of students in MC remained almost same). Which seems to suggest that more and more girls are getting into CS.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei Don't see the point of that article..

wells all it basically is are statistics that just reinforce the general belief that there aren't a whole lot of women in the tech industry to begin with ...

now i wonder what the phenomenon is with TOTA's vast majority of guys all studying something in the computer related fields.. ?

interesting...

It's intersting that this was brought up b/c I was engaged in a similar coversation on the weekend. It seems like all of the ppl that I know who dj p/t are male and work in the computer industry. Also, it seems like there are lots of females at the events but for a long time I had no female friends that were interested in coming w/ me... so it i'd end up being the only girl in our group.
cs

<--retail management
infinity_high - business management
DJ MG - business something
Endlesswave - something else dunno wat
Time2burn - also something else and dunno wat

quote:

Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee Time2burn - also something else and dunno wat

Ya still trying to figure that out myself!

An ex of mine is in CS at Rye and also worked at IBM for co-op. She went to schools to talk to girls about the male domination in the IT industry. I never really understood why this is the case. I guess we still live in a world where society deems certain jobs gender specific.

I guess this will slowly change in time. Hopefully with all the ppl in IT these days there will be jobs for em all when they finish.

As for the Male domination on TA... No comments.

A lot of girls don't want to go into CS because it is perceived as a "male" job. It's the same thing as for a guy to be a nurse... Why most nurses are women?

The reason I never went into computers was probably because it seems boring as hell. Plus, my high school computer teacher was a prick and even though I could do all the same stuff as the guys, he favored the dudes a lot more. Either he saw more potential in the guys or he was gay.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei A lot of girls don't want to go into CS because it is perceived as a "male" job. It's the same thing as for a guy to be a nurse... Why most nurses are women?

Very good point.

For the record I totally disagree with the 'male typogrophy' theory that women are afraid to enter into CS because of the stigma attached to it. Honestly, and this WILL be controversial, could one not argue that the advanced mathematics required is a huge turnoff for women.

<-- Political Science. No way in fuck I could even pick up a calculator again, and proud of it. In my area of study, we talk about the gender domination and how politics is the 'old boys club'. And there are countless valid reasons for why women aren't in politics, but I don't quite think it applies to CS at all. IMO the CS issue has more to do with thought patterns and basic interest (or lack there of) of women entering into it.

(this whole argument is funny for me, because I go to a University where women are so abudant it gets on your nerves, )

quote:

Originally posted by halo20 (this whole argument is funny for me, because I go to a University where women are so abudant it gets on your nerves, )

Wha? How can an abundance of women get on your nerves? Well unless they're annoying/stuck up, superficial etc (like at York SOMEWHAT...) Just walk by the student center aka gino central as Az and I call it...and you'll see just tons of people looking as though they want to go to a club. Wth...

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess The reason I never went into computers was probably because it seems boring as hell. Plus, my high school computer teacher was a prick and even though I could do all the same stuff as the guys, he favored the dudes a lot more. Either he saw more potential in the guys or he was gay.

yeah I was *thinking* of going into CS (computer science not counter-strike incase people are still lost on that) until i took computer courses in high school, particularly the programming course i just finished. That course seriously made me hate computers. I knew just as much as the teacher herself (yeah she was female), but her tests were completely off topic, unrelated to anything we'd done in the course and stuff she didn't even try to mention let alone teach. I figure it's probably the same way in University so I just said forget that...so now i'm thinking of Graphic Communication Management offered at Ryerson ( http://www.ryerson.ca/programs/gcm.html )

I think the CS industry is dominated by males is because males are, typically, interestted in video games and such at such a young age...this love for video games turns into love for computers. I have no proof of this, it's just what I also thought about computers gender wise.

quote:

Originally posted by Durafei A lot of girls don't want to go into CS because it is perceived as a "male" job. It's the same thing as for a guy to be a nurse... Why most nurses are women?

I'm just finishing my nursing degree at Mac. I'm not gay either (some people assume). But that's just another perception. Nursing is still way more stigmatized for guys that computers is for girls. I love being in classes full of women. I feel sorry for all you IT/computers/engineering students etc..where it's a sausage fest at every lecture...and if there is any women, they look like guys too

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor and if there is any women, they look like guys too

be prepared for negative feedback on that one

Having been in the working world for a while it's safe to say that the number of women in the CS / IT field has grow quite a lot in the last 5 years.

For instance, where I'm at now, there's women that are:
- Windows 2000 Active Directory Consultant
- Technical Helpdesk Analyst
- Information Technology Trainer
- Microsoft Mouse Trainer
- 2-3 that are in the web development department as well.

The roles of a techie being a man is disapparing...

quote:

Originally posted by Elmo-On-XTC be prepared for negative feedback on that one

Negative feedback?
Fuck that, he's right... I should've taken a nursing program myself, I could've been goddamn done by now! But no, I had to pursue the career in CS. Oh well, at least Ryerson is full of nice girls, wherever you turn, it kinda makes up for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Elmo-On-XTC be prepared for negative feedback on that one

pure jokes. I'm not offended if people say guy nurses are gay, some stereotypes are based on a grain of truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Elmo-On-XTC I figure it's probably the same way in University so I just said forget that...so now i'm thinking of Graphic Communication Management offered at Ryerson ( http://www.ryerson.ca/programs/gcm.html )

best of luck man...i got accepted for both retail management and graphic comm at rye but i chose retail cos GCM is based onthe print indsutry and im an illiterate if u know what i mean...however i heard its a really creative and money making choice...but i chose retail also cos i wanna start up my own business someday...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee <--retail management infinity_high - business management

i'm doing business marketing, jeez, don't you know anything

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r - Microsoft Mouse Trainer

wtf is that?!

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH i'm doing business marketing, jeez, don't you know anything

LKD secondsthat emotion

alrite .. so you guys have given ur feedback on the correlation between tech related jobs being saturated with men, or atleast the notion that it's that way ..

so what about the link of the same tech savvy men populating TOTA.. or atleast the ones predominantly posting .. ?

I'm pretty sure that every single forum is mostly dominated by guys...

quote:

Originally posted by halo20 Honestly, and this WILL be controversial, could one not argue that the advanced mathematics required is a huge turnoff for women.

I'm surprised that no one responded to this so I will. Is the math required for computers that advanced? Like I said, it just seems boring not that it would be difficult. If you give me formulas I think I could figure things out pretty well. The field just seems totally dead end with no rewards after.

quote:

IMO the CS issue has more to do with thought patterns and basic interest (or lack there of) of women entering into it.

They do say that men and women have different thinking patterns with men being more mathematical and visuospacial and women being more verbal. But that does not explain the fact that there are more men in politics since its more of a verbal field and also in law there is more men too which also requires verbal skills. Why is that? Are women just not accepted in these fields?

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess Is the math required for computers that advanced?

Honestly Margs, I couldn't do it if my life depended on it. I have 1 OAC Math credit and that 3 or 4th year Comp Sci shit is out of this world. My brain does not work that way. I mean of course women could do it, and I'm sure you could as well, but you do realize you aren't Joe Schmo high schooler.

quote:

But that does not explain the fact that there are more men in politics since its more of a verbal field and also in law there is more men too which also requires verbal skills. Why is that? Are women just not accepted in these fields?

I wasn't necessarily comparing the number of women in CS vs. Poli Sci, but merely pointing out that I have studied it. Men dominating in politics has nothing to do with verbal skills, for the record anyways. If you really want I can go into it, but it's far off from topic of this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by halo20 Men dominating in politics has nothing to do with verbal skills, for the record anyways. If you really want I can go into it, but it's far off from topic of this thread.

Do men dominate politics because they are more aggressive and not depended on emotions?
So what kinds of careers do women dominate. Nursing? What else? Nothing really, nothing that can actually bring in cash. Why is it like this? I have no idea myself.

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