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Posted by occrider on Feb-11-2003 04:49:

US Isolationism? Hell Yes

We tried it in the early 20th century and it didn't really work but maybe now is a time for the US to return to a state of isolationism. I feel that US involvement in world politics just isn't appreciated anymore. Example: I just saw a news report about S. Koreans burning American flags and stabbing soldiers stationed along the Korean DMZ. Why not just pull our forces out of that region? The S. Korean president was elected on an anti-American campaign. If N. Korean tanks roll across the border ... fuck them. We went to war to protect S. Korea and sent troops to guard the 35th parallel for the past 50 years. This allowed the S. Koreans to invest in their economy to build up a major economic force in the region while the N. Koreans continued to starve their citizens to build up the 5th largest army in the world. The S. Koreans now have the audacity to protest US involvement? I say fuck them, and let N. Korea do whatever it wants, the new American foreign policy is to let live and let die. If Iraq threatens the middle east again ... fuck them, Saudi Arabia can handle its own problems. I'm sick of anti-war demonstrations. I'm sick of anti-American sentiment. It would be so much easier to adopt a neutral policy and just sit everything out. Just think ... what would be discussed in these forums if people weren't bitching so much about American foreign policy?

USA get out? Ok ...

Posted by Cyrus King on Feb-11-2003 05:47:

Re: US Isolationism? Hell Yes

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
We tried it in the early 20th century and it didn't really work but maybe now is a time for the US to return to a state of isolationism. I feel that US involvement in world politics just isn't appreciated anymore. Example: I just saw a news report about S. Koreans burning American flags and stabbing soldiers stationed along the Korean DMZ. Why not just pull our forces out of that region? The S. Korean president was elected on an anti-American campaign. If N. Korean tanks roll across the border ... fuck them. We went to war to protect S. Korea and sent troops to guard the 35th parallel for the past 50 years. This allowed the S. Koreans to invest in their economy to build up a major economic force in the region while the N. Koreans continued to starve their citizens to build up the 5th largest army in the world. The S. Koreans now have the audacity to protest US involvement? I say fuck them, and let N. Korea do whatever it wants, the new American foreign policy is to let live and let die. If Iraq threatens the middle east again ... fuck them, Saudi Arabia can handle its own problems. I'm sick of anti-war demonstrations. I'm sick of anti-American sentiment. It would be so much easier to adopt a neutral policy and just sit everything out. Just think ... what would be discussed in these forums if people weren't bitching so much about American foreign policy?

USA get out? Ok ...

I second that... to an extent....
The USA along with other super powers should work together in order to keep peace in places... rather than accuse and invade for ridiculous reasons...

I also beleive that there should be an international law that regulates people who come into power... kind of like an international agreement that enables certain people with generally acceptable traits and resume's...then we wouldnt have people like Saddam and Bush in power. What a great world that would be.

Posted by occrider on Feb-11-2003 06:05:

Re: Re: US Isolationism? Hell Yes

quote:
Originally posted by Cyrus King
I second that... to an extent....
The USA along with other super powers should work together in order to keep peace in places... rather than accuse and invade for ridiculous reasons...

I also beleive that there should be an international law that regulates people who come into power... kind of like an international agreement that enables certain people with generally acceptable traits and resume's...then we wouldnt have people like Saddam and Bush in power. What a great world that would be.

I'm going to say no to even that. I say lets give the people what they want ... no US involvement AT ALL. Withdraw from NATO (even though we are NATO), withdraw from the UN, withdraw from everything. There's no need for the US to maintain a presence abroad except for trade. We have an ABM missile system, we have a strong military, we don't need allies or a projection of power. If the US did try to maintain any kind of peace or humanitarian mission abroad (aka somalia) it would only result in resentment. It seems that everybody would be happier that way.

Posted by intrinsic on Feb-11-2003 07:25:

Re: Re: Re: US Isolationism? Hell Yes

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
I'm going to say no to even that. I say lets give the people what they want ... no US involvement AT ALL. Withdraw from NATO (even though we are NATO), withdraw from the UN, withdraw from everything. There's no need for the US to maintain a presence abroad except for trade. We have an ABM missile system, we have a strong military, we don't need allies or a projection of power. If the US did try to maintain any kind of peace or humanitarian mission abroad (aka somalia) it would only result in resentment. It seems that everybody would be happier that way.

On top of this, I also say we stop giving economic aid as well.

Posted by malek on Feb-11-2003 08:07:

yes to that...

but it ain't that easy. the US need the resources that puppets regimes around the world sell them (at cheap prices may I say). That's why they have to protect their intrests and fight for new ones.

Posted by DrUg_Tit0 on Feb-11-2003 11:45:

I agree, the problem with isolationism is that it's good only if the country is completely self-sufficient. Besides, it usually slows down progress because of a much weaker interaction with other cultures. The thing is that Bush's current politics are leading the US into a state of isolationism, and I don't think that was his original intention. There is a middle ground between playing the world policeman and being completely isolated, and that is the way US should go.

Posted by sifntj0r on Feb-11-2003 12:48:

its funny really

everyone's so anti american, but the hard fact of life is, if you were being attacked, bombed the fuck out of ur home and back to the stone ages, you and your sissy government would be begging the USA to help you.

truth hurts, it really does.

Posted by melech_mike on Feb-11-2003 16:43:

quote:
truth hurts, it really does.

sure fuckin' does!

occrider - you stated that you feel the US should stay out of foreign affairs throughout the world including the middle east...
Is that to say that a government that supported the US ever since it became a country in '48, should be cut off because other countries in the region have their heads up their ass's?

These anti-war/anti-US demonstrations throughout the world are the thousands of ignorant fucks who dont fully understand the risks of the US pulling its presence away from hot spots throughout the world.

They dont understand that Extremists can pop up anywhere and blow something up in the name of their g-d. doesn't matter where you are in this world, your life is on the line due to a new world threat.
WMD can reach the far corners of the world. This is a new world filled with terror... and someone gotta eliminate this threat to world stability and peace... g-d knows the UN cant do shit for shit when it comes to secutirty and stability!

People dont appreciate what the US is doing for them because they dont like the US flexing its musles in their own backyard... it makes them feel that they themselves cant solve the problem thats plaguing their own region.

Posted by MisterOpus1 on Feb-11-2003 18:06:

Okay, so we should isolate ourselves then. We should cut ties to other countries and let them fend for themselves. Well, I'm for that, as long as we cut ties across the board for EVERYONE, including the 3 Billion we give to Israel. Let them fend for themselves as well, and see if they can actually work out their problems on their own. Of course, that's just one example, but how far do you want to be isolated? Does that mean cutting all imports and exports? I mean, we've already screwed ourselves a little bit with our dealings with European steel, why not cut that off as well? No foreign medical aid to anyone? Well, I guess that means we should cut off our medical pharmaceuticals to Africa, and let them all die of AIDS! I mean, they deserve it don't they? Those stupid poverty-stricken sex-crazed idiots!!! It also shouldn't matter the fact that we are the biggest polluters in the Hey, and screw Canada and Mexico while we're at it! What the hell are we doing with our big corporate businesses utilizing cheap labor in Mexico for? Get 'em out of there!

But wait, maybe that's the problem here: money. We are part of this sick global economy. No, we pretty much run it. The U.S. comprises only 4% of the world's population, but we own more than 25% of the world's wealth! Here's another interesting tidbit: the 3 richest men in the U.S. own more personal assets than the combined assets owned by the entire populations of the 60 poorest countries! Just as the rest of the world relies on us for military defense, imports and exports, food medical supplies, well guess what? We're just as dependent on the rest of the world for our economy and finances as well, and wars are inclusive in those financial needs. We can't cut ties to other countries, because we need them to run our corporate businesses, which equates to our economy and the world's economy for that matter. What's more, we couldn't possibly run things on our own. Why? Because there's money to be made out there in them thar' oil fields! Sure, we could use solar and wind power, and go to hydrogen/electrical powered cars (yeah, good one Bush!) as our standard, and drill for Alaskan oil, but we are simply too fixated on our normal oil and gas standard. I always thought it interesting that 1987 was the year in which the average car in the US got 26miles/gallon (highest ever), and now it's at roughly 25miles/gallon today. Thanks be to Clinton for that one, exempting the SUV's from mileage requirements of regular passenger cars, so the automakers could make them guzzle gas at any rate now. That won't change anytime soon, and don't expect Detroit to be making more efficient SUV's tomorrow. Consequently, we depend on other countries for such needs, as they depend on us for other needs.

Again, these are just a couple of examples, but it just shows our lack of willingness to be isolated. Money runs the collective whole here. I think possibly the main point of this forum was the idea of removing our troops and letting countries fend for themselves, but there's a bigger picture here that not only ties into why our troops are in other countries, but what our motives or "interests" are in the first place. Plus it simply makes us look like assholes! I like having friendly folks across seas, don't you? Can't we all just sit in a circle, sing "Puff the Magic Dragon", and have a pow wow? I'm personally kinda sick of Bush's "stick it in your ass" foreign policies. He and Rummy have about as much grace as a drunken yak on a high wire.

Posted by occrider on Feb-11-2003 18:29:

When I said we shouuld adopt isolationism I didn't mean COMPLETE isolationism. I'm merely stating that we should cut off the majority of our political ties while maintaining our economic ones. It's impossible and unproductive to be economically isolated in today's global economy. However, we don't need to project power to be economically powerful. The only 3 places that really matter in my opinion are Europe, Japan, and China. As long as those areas are stable and a hitler junior doesn't try to conquer them I think global trade will be just fine. I don't really give two shits what happens anywhere else and frankly with how much everybody complains about our presence in those places I say pull out completely, both our military AND ALL of our aid. It's bullshit that we're getting spit on as we're handing out welfare checks to some of these countries. If N. Korea wants to invade S. Korea that's fine by me. Bye bye samsung. I can live without. If Iraq wants to invade kuwaitt and saudi arabia that's fine by me. We'll get our oil from Russia, Canada, and Venezuala. We'll survive. We can still maintain strong ties with our close friends like Israel and Britain. But if somebody like France and Germany needs our backing in one of their interests ... fuck them.

Posted by MisterOpus1 on Feb-11-2003 18:36:

quote:
When I said we shouuld adopt isolationism I didn't mean COMPLETE isolationism. I'm merely stating that we should cut off the majority of our political ties while maintaining our economic ones. It's impossible and unproductive to be economically isolated in today's global economy. However, we don't need to project power to be economically powerful. The only 3 places that really matter in my opinion are Europe, Japan, and China. As long as those areas are stable and a hitler junior doesn't try to conquer them I think global trade will be just fine. I don't really give two shits what happens anywhere else and frankly with how much everybody complains about our presence in those places I say pull out completely, both our military AND ALL of our aid. It's bullshit that we're getting spit on as we're handing out welfare checks to some of these countries. If N. Korea wants to invade S. Korea that's fine by me. Bye bye samsung. I can live without. If Iraq wants to invade kuwaitt and saudi arabia that's fine by me. We'll get our oil from Russia, Canada, and Venezuala. We'll survive. We can still maintain strong ties with our close friends like Israel and Britain. But if somebody like France and Germany needs our backing in one of their interests ... fuck them.

Well, okie dokie then. On the specific countries and our military policies you mentioned, you'll get no argument from me. 'Nuff said.

Posted by melech_mike on Feb-11-2003 18:54:

We should start 'fuck them' rallies in Washington and New york!
I'm with you on this one Occrider!!

Posted by biznology on Feb-11-2003 20:47:

for the longest time i pushed this viewpoint as well.

most people dont give the US the respect it deserves. sure, out presidents have been idiots and have done some retarded shit. sure, there are a number of faults you pick at when a country is the largest and most powerful in the world.

but if the US withdrew all aid, all support, all industry(impossible) then the world would realize how dependent they have become. the problem is the logistics, the relationships, etc. but basically many nations would drop into desperate poverty. this isnt the best solution morally, but it would open some eyes.

israel - talk to the UK if you want to discuss who deserves aid in regards to who created your country.

its funny because places like china, and Russia would remain relatively the same, or prosper on the new found demand for resources, etc. thats precisely the reason that the US would never do such a thing tho...

glad im not living in the US with all this 'terrorist threat' horseshit occurring.

Posted by King_Mack on Feb-12-2003 00:24:

Re: Re: Re: US Isolationism? Hell Yes

Posted by King_Mack on Feb-12-2003 00:25:

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
When I said we shouuld adopt isolationism I didn't mean COMPLETE isolationism.

but you just said in your previous post?

please correct me if im wrong.

Posted by IronDragon on Feb-12-2003 01:51:

Re: US Isolationism? Hell Yes

Posted by occrider on Feb-12-2003 03:07:

quote:
Originally posted by King_Mack
but you just said in your previous post?

please correct me if im wrong.

Complete isolation is withdrawing from the global community not only politically but economically as well. In the early 20th century the US was virtually, completely isolated. We had erected trade barriers, taxes, and tarriffs on imports. As a result many European countries also had trade barriers against us. Capital was primarily reinvested in America not overceas. For all intents and purposes the US was completely isolated. Now in my previous statements I stated that we should withdraw from everything EXCEPT for trade. We would still interact with the global community with our economy, just not politically anymore.

And would that be sticking our head in the sand? I would say yes but it's better than sticking it in the fire where it appears to be right now.