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mixing breaks into trance

I've heard some livesets or mixes (PVD and Nick Warren for example) where the dj might mix a breakbeat into a straight thumping trance beat? Is this hard to do? I think it's a great way to start off a set or creat a breakdown in the set. How do you get the steady 4/4 kick of a trance track to smoothly mix into an off beat break beat kick (without sounding like a train wreck)??.

I think its always great to mix in some good trancey or atmosphere breaks or whatever to make things interesting in a set.
Just count out the measure in the break beat track and match that with the 4 beat measure of the 4/4 track. Its kinda hard to do with so much going on at once. But the best thing I find for me is to just count 1 2 3 4 and so forth whilst listening to the breaks track and then figure out which speed to get it going to match it with the 4/4 track.
just practice it alot.

well, there are pretty much two ways to mix breakbeats into 4/4.

1. turn the bass down on the incoming track...at an appropriate time, make a quick swap between basses

or method 2

turn the bass down on the incoming track, and keep it this way till the first little breakdown. then you can turn the incoming tracks bass up, and the outgoing track's bass down without a REALLY obvious switch

there is another thread on this if you do a search (but breaks and prog not breaks and trance) theory is the same though. i can mix them now but it takes me a lot longer then with 4/4 + 4/4 as it is harder to pick up the BPM of alot of breaks tracks just by listening as accurately as you can with 4/4. the easiest way ive found is to mix it through the headhpones, just slow down the breaks (cued) one until it sounds right, then make standard adjustments, you have to be quick on the pitch control though, as i find it becomes messier faster and harder to correct :)

practice i guess!

i love putting breaks in my trance songs . it gives ppl a break from the same beat. the crowd love it, a nice change in the set is always good. practice. good luck.

mixing breaks isn't that hard
in almost every 3/4 beat track there's a high end element (snare, hi-hat, etc.) that is on a 4/4 beat
so when you mix anything listen to the high end of the track, your mixes will be tighter and you can easily cross from a 4/4 beat to a 3/4 beat and back

good luck in this one

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Shockwav mixing breaks isn't that hard in almost every 3/4 beat track there's a high end element (snare, hi-hat, etc.) that is on a 4/4 beat so when you mix anything listen to the high end of the track, your mixes will be tighter and you can easily cross from a 4/4 beat to a 3/4 beat and back

breaks isn't 3/4 beat

all electronic music that i can think of is 4/4


as for mixing breaks into trance and viceversa
all you have to do is match the snare on the 2nd & 4th beat, and for fine tuning listen to the cymbols

also the first kickdrum in the breaks 4 beat measure should fall on the first kickdrum of the trance measure (usually...but not always, its pretty obvious to tell when it does and doesn't)

to mix them you can do any number of a different things
you can mix the hi & mids like you normally do since the cymbols are usually the same
and for the broken kickdrum, you can just slowly fade it in as you slowly bring the trance kick out...having both tracks kickdrums going sounds fine
but as with all dj'ing, there's no set way of mixing...this is just one way

quote:

Originally posted by Kid Lax breaks isn't 3/4 beat all electronic music that i can think of is 4/4 )

your saying DnB is on a 4/4 beat????

yaarr matey that's exactly what im saying

4/4 refers to 4 beats per bar, 4 bars per measure
(my terminology might be a bit off, its been a long time, but you get what i mean)

i.e. 16 beats a measure

but they don't mean physical beats as in kickdrums, but in timing

4/4 describes this type of idea
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

so in drum&bass the noticable instrument to count (snare/clap) falls on 2 & 4, then 2+ & 4, alternating, but that doesn't change the fact that its a 4/4 measure...just keep in mind its at 170+ bpm when testing this out for yourself

in breaks the noticable counting instrument falls on 2 & 4


if it were a 3/4 measure it would be
1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3
an example of this is the classic song "Tubular Bells" (i.e. The Exorcist theme), though it might be 3/3 I can't remember exactly, but i know its 3/something as ive tried to incorperate it into a set but the timing is all wrong

Yeah, Kid Lax is Right.

Kid Lax: Your problem with tubular bells is that it has a structure of 3 bars of 7/8 followed by 1 bar of 8/8 (or 4/4) .. if you count the quavers in a bar you'll see what i mean (grouped as 2, 2, 3 for the 7/8 bars and 2, 2, 2, 2 for the 8/8) .. i've tried it too, and its almost impossible to pull off..

Living here in the land of FL breaks i can mix breaks......a lot of people have trouble for some reason, i find it quite easy

example
simple 4 to the floor beat(simple)

k-hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh

Break beat(simple)
k-k-hh-k-k-hh

I normal match the beats on the highhats soo it would look like this in theory...

hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh
hh-k-k-hh-k-k-hh-k-k-hh

hope it makes sense it also helps a lot to know your tracks cuzz most tracks dont just repeat the same rhythm patern so phrase matching is also a key...Highhats are the key to mixing.

quote:

Originally posted by fr0st Living here in the land of FL breaks i can mix breaks......a lot of people have trouble for some reason, i find it quite easy example simple 4 to the floor beat(simple) k-hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh Break beat(simple) k-k-hh-k-k-hh I normal match the beats on the highhats soo it would look like this in theory... hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh-k-hh hh-k-k-hh-k-k-hh-k-k-hh hope it makes sense it also helps a lot to know your tracks cuzz most tracks dont just repeat the same rhythm patern so phrase matching is also a key...Highhats are the key to mixing.

Yes, I think you are right. Because the kicks are off in trance compared to breaks, you must pay attention to the hi-hats.

Some corrections to above posts: there is no such thing as 3/3 time, but 3/4 is right...and that is right that all electronic music is 4/4. It's the most common and dancable beat.

3/4 is also a "waltz" sound 123,123,123,123 etc....and try dancing to something like 7/4 1234123,1234123, sounds mad

ROFL, this is what you get for bringing up time signitures up in front of a bunch of musicians. I was actually discussing (in this much detail) the 12/8-tripelet feel(alternating to a 4/4 Celtic feel every 64 bars) in a Bela Fleck song with some friends about 30 minutes ago. weird.

But yes, all electronic music can be broken down to 4/4, but I've heard many songs that aren't that exactly. But if not its every 4 bars is repeating or something divisible by it. But listen to some insane Jackel & Hyde or something, you can't find a straight 4/4. (I can't wait for Ultra )

About the thread:
I've never personally mixed anything in and out of it's own genre, as I don't think I'm that good yet. But I've heard some DJ's do this with great skill and the crowd goes nuts. I think it's tight as hell. I've heard Emerge mixed into a Deisleboy set(no shit). I don't think some people knew what was going on, but it was tight as fuck.

actually...I guess you could have something with a 3/4 feel in electronic music...and yes^^^^ that would be triplets...instead of a feel like 1-2-3-4 etc...you would get 123-123-123-123..and I think that's what can give breaks a 3/4 feel perhaps.

im gonna explain this for everyone is confused about time signatures...... 4/4 is 4 beats per measure and each beat worth one1/4 or quarter note. 4/2 is 4 beats per measure each beat worth 1 half note 3/4 time is 3 beats per measure each beat worth 1 quarter... changing the key signiter doesnt in anyway change the style of a song...its just the way the music is writtin...

quote:

Originally posted by Kid Lax breaks isn't 3/4 beat all electronic music that i can think of is 4/4 as for mixing breaks into trance and viceversa all you have to do is match the snare on the 2nd & 4th beat, and for fine tuning listen to the cymbols also the first kickdrum in the breaks 4 beat measure should fall on the first kickdrum of the trance measure (usually...but not always, its pretty obvious to tell when it does and doesn't) to mix them you can do any number of a different things you can mix the hi & mids like you normally do since the cymbols are usually the same and for the broken kickdrum, you can just slowly fade it in as you slowly bring the trance kick out...having both tracks kickdrums going sounds fine but as with all dj'ing, there's no set way of mixing...this is just one way

werd.

as for styles, go for something that is almost 4/4 (as in the kick) for example a Timo Maas track is breaks, but has a 4 beat to it with just one kick taken out. this makes the transition easier.

Personally i like to use some Sander Klienenberg or Praha or something pretty tough for these mixes.
For example, i like doing this transition:

Chris Dee - Freaksound (Koma n Bones mix)
System F - Exhale (Sander Kleinenberg mix)
Sybren Danz - Dizzit

when you do something like that, you have to be careful of your BPMs, as with the mix above, the bpms range from low 130s to almost 140. But i find Exhale (SK mix) actually sounds good when you slowly increase the pitch during the breakdown.

And thats my two cents./

Which brings me very neatly to the following question.. how do breakbeat DJs do their transitions? With beats such as this in every track, I'm sure they don't do what progressive DJs do and let the tracks make love for 10 minutes before fading one of them off. I've read a DJ book which says that breakbeat DJ-ing is the easiest because they just cut off the outgoing and introduce the incoming in one swift motion, normally using the crossfader. Is there any truth to that?

quote:

Originally posted by Great Outdoors Which brings me very neatly to the following question.. how do breakbeat DJs do their transitions? With beats such as this in every track, I'm sure they don't do what progressive DJs do and let the tracks make love for 10 minutes before fading one of them off. I've read a DJ book which says that breakbeat DJ-ing is the easiest because they just cut off the outgoing and introduce the incoming in one swift motion, normally using the crossfader. Is there any truth to that?

Depends on the tracks themselves. If it was a very atmopheric trance-like track, you would let the two mix for maybe one minute (32 bars) and it would also depend on the beat, if the two tracks had a very similar breakbeat, you would do the same mix as a prog track, but if the two had distinctly different beats and/or tone, you would do a quick mix of maybe 8 or 16 bars.

Obviously some tracks just cant be mixed with certain other ones, but you get to know these ones, and how to deal with it.

Or if you are Phil K you have a Pioneer EFX 500 and do 3 minute break mixes....the master!

well for the breaks
if you count

1and2and3and4and, i just learned to count it like this, but i makes it easier than counting straight 1,2,3,4. that is like the trance beat, its really hard to explain how to match it, but i say match every 1st trance beat with every first breakbeat

so like
here is this trance song


1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4

and here is the breaks song

1&2&3&4& and so on

so if you are matching the trance to a breaks
you take every first trance beat (1) and match it to every 1st breakbeat (1). it takes a lot of practice. because unlike trance you arent matching each beat together, but you are matching every first beat, which is a bit more difficult, i hope this helps explain, but you might want to try and listen to a transfer where they mix breaks to trance, if you guys want, i can put up a few examples, just give me like a few mb of webspace

quote:

Originally posted by liquidxxd well for the breaks if you count 1and2and3and4and, i just learned to count it like this, but i makes it easier than counting straight 1,2,3,4. that is like the trance beat, its really hard to explain how to match it, but i say match every 1st trance beat with every first breakbeat so like here is this trance song 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 and here is the breaks song 1&2&3&4& and so on so if you are matching the trance to a breaks you take every first trance beat (1) and match it to every 1st breakbeat (1). it takes a lot of practice. because unlike trance you arent matching each beat together, but you are matching every first beat, which is a bit more difficult, i hope this helps explain, but you might want to try and listen to a transfer where they mix breaks to trance, if you guys want, i can put up a few examples, just give me like a few mb of webspace

I realy dont under stand how counting in 8th notes vs 1/4 notes helps you mix breaks and trance. Please explain.....but your right on about matching the first beat....I normaly line up the high hats but thats personal preference.

you match the high end of the track instead of the bassline

this has been covered before
do a search and see what comes up...

quote:

Originally posted by fr0st im gonna explain this for everyone is confused about time signatures...... 4/4 is 4 beats per measure and each beat worth one1/4 or quarter note. 4/2 is 4 beats per measure each beat worth 1 half note 3/4 time is 3 beats per measure each beat worth 1 quarter... changing the key signiter doesnt in anyway change the style of a song...its just the way the music is writtin...

you know what...come to think of it you're right
you saying that just sparked a lightbulb in my head from reading sheet music years ago

all this damn electronic music has corrupted all my music theory knowledge... (i swear its the music and not the activities associated with it )

just try to beatmatch the snare, as opposed to the kick, makes things al ot easier.

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