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palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

never has israel threatened anything on America. In fact quite the opposite! They work more closely they any of you can imagine.

look at this palestinian legislator threatens US with suicide bomber!

these dirtbags need to be stomped on. Everything on the east side of the jordan river was designated to its rightful owner. But these pigs can't handle that and the baby world cries whenever any justice is served!!! Well we are slowly losing our country, our pride, and our way of life, just to conform to the worlds demands.

Would Russia do this in our place? Or Germany? Or Sweden? Or America???? I doubt it. Jews are the worlds punching bag, as long as jews don't realize who they are, A PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE PROUD, not a people who should hide in the dark and 'clothe' themselves in foreign ideologies. Jews should act like jews, after all they are the only civilization that exists from the biblical ages, (as noted by christians around the world, and muslims in fact too!)

I'm sure with thousands of years of leadership and stories and books, and laws, (jewish law was what the ancient babylonians based their laws from, and thus we have the roots of todays modern laws) so why don't the jews act according to their own laws? but instead take a 'remixed' version done by whatever handful of countries that they can dwell in?

puzzling questions. I think when things are foggy, and unclear in a moment like now, in a few years when someone is gonna take a risk out there, leadership wise, and try something new, we will see the fog start to clear.

what part will we play??

SHLOMO

Re: palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

quote:

Originally posted by shlomo_hamalech never has israel threatened anything on America. In fact quite the opposite! They work more closely they any of you can imagine. look at this palestinian legislator threatens US with suicide bomber! these dirtbags need to be stomped on. Everything on the east side of the jordan river was designated to its rightful owner. But these pigs can't handle that and the baby world cries whenever any justice is served!!! Well we are slowly losing our country, our pride, and our way of life, just to conform to the worlds demands. Would Russia do this in our place? Or Germany? Or Sweden? Or America???? I doubt it. Jews are the worlds punching bag, as long as jews don't realize who they are, A PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE PROUD, not a people who should hide in the dark and 'clothe' themselves in foreign ideologies. Jews should act like jews, after all they are the only civilization that exists from the biblical ages, (as noted by christians around the world, and muslims in fact too!) I'm sure with thousands of years of leadership and stories and books, and laws, (jewish law was what the ancient babylonians based their laws from, and thus we have the roots of todays modern laws) so why don't the jews act according to their own laws? but instead take a 'remixed' version done by whatever handful of countries that they can dwell in? puzzling questions. I think when things are foggy, and unclear in a moment like now, in a few years when someone is gonna take a risk out there, leadership wise, and try something new, we will see the fog start to clear. what part will we play?? SHLOMO

u make me sick, you NAZI!!!!
crawl back to the hole u came from to your hitler leader and don't come back.
u take over someone's land, kick them out, remove all their rights, destroy their houses to build your own, kill their children.... and u expect them not to react?????? what planet r u from????

i'm not saying arafat is mr. nice, or that terrorists r right, but what goes round comes round, every action has a reaction, such are the laws of the universe.

Re: palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

quote:

Originally posted by shlomo_hamalech never has israel threatened anything on America. In fact quite the opposite! They work more closely they any of you can imagine. look at this palestinian legislator threatens US with suicide bomber! these dirtbags need to be stomped on. Everything on the east side of the jordan river was designated to its rightful owner. But these pigs can't handle that and the baby world cries whenever any justice is served!!! Well we are slowly losing our country, our pride, and our way of life, just to conform to the worlds demands. Would Russia do this in our place? Or Germany? Or Sweden? Or America???? I doubt it. Jews are the worlds punching bag, as long as jews don't realize who they are, A PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE PROUD, not a people who should hide in the dark and 'clothe' themselves in foreign ideologies. Jews should act like jews, after all they are the only civilization that exists from the biblical ages, (as noted by christians around the world, and muslims in fact too!) I'm sure with thousands of years of leadership and stories and books, and laws, (jewish law was what the ancient babylonians based their laws from, and thus we have the roots of todays modern laws) so why don't the jews act according to their own laws? but instead take a 'remixed' version done by whatever handful of countries that they can dwell in? puzzling questions. I think when things are foggy, and unclear in a moment like now, in a few years when someone is gonna take a risk out there, leadership wise, and try something new, we will see the fog start to clear. what part will we play?? SHLOMO

Has Melech-mike been cloned?

Re: Re: palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

quote:

Originally posted by NFA u take over someone's land, kick them out, remove all their rights, destroy their houses to build your own, kill their children.... and u expect them not to react?????? what planet r u from????

Last time I checked there weren't any Native Americans going around trying to blow up American civilians.

I wonder why that might be. Maybe it's because when fate handed them a shitty fortune, they decided to try and make the best of it despite their misfortunes instead of just feeling sorry for themselves and projecting their frustrations onto others in the form of violence. Is that too much to ask from the Palestinians? I don't think so. I'll start caring about Palestinians problems when they start acting mature and/or responsible.

To me its unconscionable why people keep making excuses for the Palestinians behavior. The fact of the matter is that it's no way to behave under any circumstances - period. It doesn't matter how oppressed they are. For fuck sake, there have been thousands of peoples in the history of the world who have suffered more brutal oppression than the Palestinians and yet who had the moral fiber not to resort to terrorism. Frankly, I believe anyone who sympathizes with the Palestinians is part of the problem because they're encouraging this sort of behavior which ought not to be encouraged.

Furthermore, a preponderance of individuals, many of whom normally seem to be rational and intelligent people, have the audacity to compare Palestinian terrorism to Israeli military activity against the Palestinians as equal evils. This is so preposterous, so utterly ludicrous, that it makes me want to reclassify myself as a different species to dissociate myself from anyone or anything that could possibly have conceived this notion. Let me draw this out in crayon for anyone who may not follow: the sole and exclusive cause of Israeli military exercises against the Palestinians is the terrorism of the Palestinians. That is to say, Israel's military activity against Palestinians is one of the negative effects of Palestinian terrorism. It is the Palestinians themselves whose actions are producing this result.

Do I think Israeli military actions which result in the death of Palestinian civilians are a good thing? No, of course not. But Israel is under constant attack. What do you expect them to do, respond with charity? If someone came up to you on the street, and started punching you in the face, would you give them your wallet, or would you fight back? If you give them your wallet, you become part of the problem by providing positive feedback to their undesirable activity. A reasonable person my not particuarly want to hurt the person who is assaulting him, but presented by such a situation, he really has no choice.

So I ask you, sir, what planet are you from? Because it appears to me it is one where good and evil have undergone some form of juxtaposition. You compare Sharon to Hitler, but last time I checked, there weren't many Jews strapping bombs to their backs in early 20th century Germany. You cry about the horrible fate of the Palestinians, but yet you can't be bothered to give a second thought to the horrible precedent that is already being set by negotiating with terrorists. Don't you see how many people will die in the future because of your legitimization of terrorism as a means for obtaining political redress? Where is your sympathy for them and their loved ones?

If the Palestinians want justice, I don't have a problem with it. But they have to choose a different way to express their frustrations than terrorism first. If you want to be treated in a civil manner, you ought to behave in such a manner yourself. Otherwise, you're nothing more than a hypocrite.

Regards,

Arbiter

I'm a pussy. I'm not gonna even TOUCH this topic.

why don't the moderators ban people that have nothing to do with trance and who post in politics.... this has became ridiculous.

after melech_mike now this shlomo_shit dude

quote:

never has israel threatened anything on America. In fact quite the opposite! They work more closely they any of you can imagine.

Now that isnt quite true. Israeli warplanes attacked a US warship which I think was called the Liberty killing quite a few sailors.

And before I get flamed. It DID happen, whether it was an accident or not I really dont know.

There was also the 'Lavon' affair in the early 1950's where Israeli agents were to attack american interests in Egypt and make it look like the arabs did it to draw america closer to Israel, this was in the days before Israel became an american client state.

There was also an Israeli spy whose name escapes me who obtained top level secrets from the US government on behalf of Israel.

quote:

If the Palestinians want justice, I don't have a problem with it. But they have to choose a different way to express their frustrations than terrorism first. If you want to be treated in a civil manner, you ought to behave in such a manner yourself. Otherwise, you're nothing more than a hypocrite.

What fate would the Palestinians have if they didnt resort to violence. If the Jews have their way, Jordan would be Palestine. Sharon has said so. So if you come back on me and say that isnt true, i will provide the quotes.

A large body of the Israeli population want to finish the job started in 1948 and 1967 and clear the occupied territories of the remaining arabs and make it safe for the settlers. However you cant just come out and do it because this might offend america so you come up with the scam of collective punishment. How does destroying palestinian farms, smashing up palestinian markets, depriving palestinians of basic water rights act as a deterent to terrorism.

The terrorism is just a ruse, in fact you people secretly want it as an excuse to make life utterly intolerable for the people still there so they will be forced to move just like you people did to the arabs in 1948.

However unlike in 1948, Israel wont get away with it.

Re: Re: Re: palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Last time I checked there weren't any Native Americans going around trying to blow up American civilians. I wonder why that might be. Maybe it's because when fate handed them a shitty fortune, they decided to try and make the best of it despite their misfortunes instead of just feeling sorry for themselves and projecting their frustrations onto others in the form of violence. Is that too much to ask from the Palestinians? I don't think so. I'll start caring about Palestinians problems when they start acting mature and/or responsible. To me its unconscionable why people keep making excuses for the Palestinians behavior. The fact of the matter is that it's no way to behave under any circumstances - period. It doesn't matter how oppressed they are. For fuck sake, there have been thousands of peoples in the history of the world who have suffered more brutal oppression than the Palestinians and yet who had the moral fiber not to resort to terrorism. Frankly, I believe anyone who sympathizes with the Palestinians is part of the problem because they're encouraging this sort of behavior which ought not to be encouraged. Furthermore, a preponderance of individuals, many of whom normally seem to be rational and intelligent people, have the audacity to compare Palestinian terrorism to Israeli military activity against the Palestinians as equal evils. This is so preposterous, so utterly ludicrous, that it makes me want to reclassify myself as a different species to dissociate myself from anyone or anything that could possibly have conceived this notion. Let me draw this out in crayon for anyone who may not follow: the sole and exclusive cause of Israeli military exercises against the Palestinians is the terrorism of the Palestinians. That is to say, Israel's military activity against Palestinians is one of the negative effects of Palestinian terrorism. It is the Palestinians themselves whose actions are producing this result. Do I think Israeli military actions which result in the death of Palestinian civilians are a good thing? No, of course not. But Israel is under constant attack. What do you expect them to do, respond with charity? If someone came up to you on the street, and started punching you in the face, would you give them your wallet, or would you fight back? If you give them your wallet, you become part of the problem by providing positive feedback to their undesirable activity. A reasonable person my not particuarly want to hurt the person who is assaulting him, but presented by such a situation, he really has no choice. So I ask you, sir, what planet are you from? Because it appears to me it is one where good and evil have undergone some form of juxtaposition. You compare Sharon to Hitler, but last time I checked, there weren't many Jews strapping bombs to their backs in early 20th century Germany. You cry about the horrible fate of the Palestinians, but yet you can't be bothered to give a second thought to the horrible precedent that is already being set by negotiating with terrorists. Don't you see how many people will die in the future because of your legitimization of terrorism as a means for obtaining political redress? Where is your sympathy for them and their loved ones? If the Palestinians want justice, I don't have a problem with it. But they have to choose a different way to express their frustrations than terrorism first. If you want to be treated in a civil manner, you ought to behave in such a manner yourself. Otherwise, you're nothing more than a hypocrite. Regards, Arbiter

Although I will say that arbiter presents a very convincing and coherent argument. I won't go so far to say that I understand what kind of situation that they are in that would warrant such tactics, however I will say that perhaps their method should be examined more so than their cause.

You know I read somewhere recently that two-thirds (or so, its a bit foggy) that Israelis were withdraw from the West Bank if it meant the end of the intifada and about 67% of Palestinians said they would stop the intifiada if it would end the occupation.

I know it's easy for me some 4000 miles away from the violence to say so but the only issue it seems to me is a real lack of trust, which I totally understand. But one side must take the first step if this is to be over.

as usual.. ignorance!!!

get a clue!!! a few of you, like Arbiter , sounds like they know what they are talking about.

but for the rest of you, no offence, but you in the world, I know because you live like me in a free society, you feel you have the right to stick your nose whereever you please and add your 'needed' two cents, but lets be honest guys! most of you from what your saying have no idae what your talking about!!

Firstly, the 'occupation' is full of crap!! the P.L.O. was established in around 1963, AROUND 4 YEARS BEFORE ISRAEL CONQUERED THE AREA OF BIBLICAL ISRAEL, IN A DEFENSIVE BATTLE!!!

lol ISrael is the only country to get scorned from what it conquered in a DEFENSIVE BATTLE!!! LOLOLOLOL

quote:

The terrorism is just a ruse, in fact you people secretly want it as an excuse to make life utterly intolerable for the people still there so they will be forced to move just like you people did to the arabs in 1948.

How can any of you say anything? and that little 'not like what they did in 1948'! YOUR SO IGNORANT I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU!!! HOW ACN WAKE UP EVERYDAY NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT!?!?!?
ISRAEL WAS CREATED FROM HANDFULS OF JEWS COMING FROM THEIR CONCENTRATION CAMPS!!!!

quote:

u make me sick, you NAZI!!!! crawl back to the hole u came from to your hitler leader and don't come back. u take over someone's land, kick them out, remove all their rights, destroy their houses to build your own, kill their children.... and u expect them not to react?????? what planet r u from????

And thank you for comparing me to the nazi's you successfully established yourself as non-intellectual-filth-spewing hate filled individual, that when seeing something they're weak mind can't grasp because they are only listening to one side of the story they spew out filth, just to personally hurt the person behind your unfounded anger.

Btw, it was the arabs themselves that told their families to move from the holy land of Israel (thank G-d we have again, it has been over 2000 years since we made the mistake of betraying our ways as jews and we lost it!!! but never again!!!).

None of you can touch this subject against me. I was mearly posting that about the palestinian.

But as we always see, even when Israel is mentioned, but the SUBJECT IS ABOUT PALESTINIANS THREATENING AMERICA, we find that it comes back to bashing jews and israel. Give it up you anti-semite lowlives!! YOU HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DESTROY THE JEWISH NATION FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS BUT IT NEVER WORKED!!! LOLOLOL

keep it up, you'll go down in the history books as another 'society to bash the long living jews who did more the world then any other nation!' and ill BACK THAT UP TOO WITH FACTS!

you want to see more facts??? READ THE LINKS I HAVE ON MY SIGNATURE!!

YOU WANT MORE? OR DO YOU WANT TO CONTINEU BASHING MY PEOPLE BASED ON YOUR MISINFORMATION??? I WILL GIVE YOU HUNDREDS OF RESEARCHABLE AND BACKABLE QUOTES FROM ARABS ABOUT THE TRUTH

I see two kinds of people. Those that know the truth, even if their IQ is 20, or 500. And those that think they know, basing their information on a few sources, (like cnn LOL) and then spreading the misinformed hatred!

You make me sick!

but we know there are great people out there that don't listen to either side, but do their own objective searching, and Thank G-d for them they make sure we dont go down in a bloody war of lies and deciet!!!!!!

LOVE YOU ALL AS USUAL!!!
SHLOMO
and i've part of this board when you were in diapers on the trance world...

I knew swamper and crap from the efnet days of #bpm, #pow and others ... plus we all from TORONTO CANADA SO BOOYA!!!

cyrus king :

quote:

Has Melech-mike been cloned?

LOLOLOLOL YOU DONT KNOW THE HALF OF IT BIG BOY

not that it matters, but cyrus you downloaded a sweet set from me on DC++ the other day... not that you'd remember i hope u enjoy!

NFA wrote:

quote:

u make me sick, you NAZI!!!!

I understand that you may oppose his opinions, but comparing him to a Nazi is ridiculous. I get extremely offend by that comparison and am kindly asking everyone to drop it!

quote:

u take over someone's land, kick them out, remove all their rights, destroy their houses to build your own, kill their children.... and u expect them not to react?????? what planet r u from????

Arbiter couldn't have put it anymore better!

quote:

Last time I checked there weren't any Native Americans going around trying to blow up American civilians. I wonder why that might be. Maybe it's because when fate handed them a shitty fortune, they decided to try and make the best of it despite their misfortunes instead of just feeling sorry for themselves and projecting their frustrations onto others in the form of violence. Is that too much to ask from the Palestinians? I don't think so. I'll start caring about Palestinians problems when they start acting mature and/or responsible. To me its unconscionable why people keep making excuses for the Palestinians behavior. The fact of the matter is that it's no way to behave under any circumstances - period. It doesn't matter how oppressed they are. For fuck sake, there have been thousands of peoples in the history of the world who have suffered more brutal oppression than the Palestinians and yet who had the moral fiber not to resort to terrorism. Frankly, I believe anyone who sympathizes with the Palestinians is part of the problem because they're encouraging this sort of behavior which ought not to be encouraged. Furthermore, a preponderance of individuals, many of whom normally seem to be rational and intelligent people, have the audacity to compare Palestinian terrorism to Israeli military activity against the Palestinians as equal evils. This is so preposterous, so utterly ludicrous, that it makes me want to reclassify myself as a different species to dissociate myself from anyone or anything that could possibly have conceived this notion. Let me draw this out in crayon for anyone who may not follow: the sole and exclusive cause of Israeli military exercises against the Palestinians is the terrorism of the Palestinians. That is to say, Israel's military activity against Palestinians is one of the negative effects of Palestinian terrorism. It is the Palestinians themselves whose actions are producing this result. Do I think Israeli military actions which result in the death of Palestinian civilians are a good thing? No, of course not. But Israel is under constant attack. What do you expect them to do, respond with charity? If someone came up to you on the street, and started punching you in the face, would you give them your wallet, or would you fight back? If you give them your wallet, you become part of the problem by providing positive feedback to their undesirable activity. A reasonable person my not particuarly want to hurt the person who is assaulting him, but presented by such a situation, he really has no choice. So I ask you, sir, what planet are you from? Because it appears to me it is one where good and evil have undergone some form of juxtaposition. You compare Sharon to Hitler, but last time I checked, there weren't many Jews strapping bombs to their backs in early 20th century Germany. You cry about the horrible fate of the Palestinians, but yet you can't be bothered to give a second thought to the horrible precedent that is already being set by negotiating with terrorists. Don't you see how many people will die in the future because of your legitimization of terrorism as a means for obtaining political redress? Where is your sympathy for them and their loved ones? If the Palestinians want justice, I don't have a problem with it. But they have to choose a different way to express their frustrations than terrorism first. If you want to be treated in a civil manner, you ought to behave in such a manner yourself. Otherwise, you're nothing more than a hypocrite.

FUCKIN' AWSOME POST BUD!
Fuck Cyrus_king, I�m through with that bitch -- Arbiter, will you marry me?

Cyrus_king wrote:

quote:

Has Melech-mike been cloned?

Seriously huh!! What�s up shlomo_hamalech, could you be my long lost brother from another mother?

ahlamalek wrote:

quote:

why don't the moderators ban people that have nothing to do with trance and who post in politics.... this has became ridiculous.

Why do the Mods have to ban shlomo_hamalech... you may have different opinions than he does, but that doesn't make his any less relevant than yours.
How do you know he has nothing to do with trance -- have you asked him? How do you know its not dj Yahel, and he's just using a cover to get his opinions out without people hating on him as a dj.

rupert wrote:

quote:

Now that isnt quite true. Israeli warplanes attacked a US warship which I think was called the Liberty killing quite a few sailors.

Just did a quick search on yahoo and couldn't find any sources on these incidents. Can you please post a link to sources that covered this story? Appreciated!

quote:

What fate would the Palestinians have if they didnt resort to violence. If the Jews have their way, Jordan would be Palestine. Sharon has said so. So if you come back on me and say that isnt true, i will provide the quotes.

You can�t say "if the Jews...� Prime Minister Sharon doesn't represent Judaism or every Jew for that matter! Provide all the quotes you want, what he wants is obviously not what he's going to get. I'll provide you with countless cases of other leaders wanting a lot more than they actually got!

quote:

However you cant just come out and do it because this might offend america so you come up with the scam of collective punishment. How does destroying palestinian farms, smashing up palestinian markets, depriving palestinians of basic water rights act as a deterent to terrorism.

When a neighbourhood collectively acts violently and straight out deadly, than that neighbourhood will collectively get punished until they find out who the specific person(s) was who committed the crimes.
What else can they do... they cant kill them because than they get shitted on -- they cant imprison everyone because it just isn't a pliable action to take -- don�t you think if they try other means of stopping them, it might actually make them think that they should try other methods of having their 'cause' heard. Once again, Arbiter couldn't have said it better.

Occrider wrote:

quote:

perhaps their method should be examined more so than their cause.

100%

IronDragon wrote:

quote:

I know it's easy for me some 4000 miles away from the violence to say so but the only issue it seems to me is a real lack of trust, which I totally understand. But one side must take the first step if this is to be over.

You study psychology and economics, you also have some knowledge of law believe, so who in your opinion should make the first step towards proving they could be worthy of trust? Do you know the history of negotiations between the two sides? Also please add what that first step should be! Appreciated!

Can�t wait to hit up blue in a few hours... fresh snowfall... Mmmm, the hills are gonna be sweet!!!!

Re: Re: palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

quote:

Originally posted by NFA u make me sick, you NAZI!!!! crawl back to the hole u came from to your hitler leader and don't come back. u take over someone's land, kick them out, remove all their rights, destroy their houses to build your own, kill their children.... and u expect them not to react?????? what planet r u from???? i'm not saying arafat is mr. nice, or that terrorists r right, but what goes round comes round, every action has a reaction, such are the laws of the universe.

A shit like you at Oxford? God Save the Queen!

NFA quote:
DROP PILLS NOT BOMBS
--
No, drop pills, get them fucked off they're ass, than drop the bombs before they feel they're come downs!! Hey, at least show them you care!

quote:

Just did a quick search on yahoo and couldn't find any sources on these incidents. Can you please post a link to sources that covered this story? Appreciated

your wish is my command

http://www.logogo.net/liberty.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/23/li...tack/index.html


http://www.jajz-ed.org.il/juice/service/week2.html

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/lavon.html

http://www.intellex.com/~rigs/page1/lavon.htm

quote:

How can any of you say anything? and that little 'not like what they did in 1948'! YOUR SO IGNORANT I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU!!! HOW ACN WAKE UP EVERYDAY NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT!?!?!?

Dont I. Dont I. Taken from Righteous Victims by Benny Morris

at p 208

Deir Yassin is remembered not as a military operation but rather for the atrocities committed by the IZL and LHI troops during and immediately after the drawn out battle:whole families were riddled with bullets and grenade fragments and buried when houses were blown up on top of them, men, women, and children were mowed down as they emerged from houses individuals were taken aside and shot. At the end of the battle, groups of old men, women, and children were trucked through West Jerusalem streets in a kind of victory parade and then dumped in Arab East Jerusalem. According to Jerusalem Shai commander Levy (reporting on April 12) the conquest of the village was carried out with great cruelty. Whole familes women, old people children were killed, and there were piles of dead. Some of the prisoners moved to places of incarceration, including women and children, were murdered viciously by their captors"

The commander of the IZL later went on to become Prime Minister of Israel- Menachin Begin.

Since we were also talking about Sharon, as an army officer he was responsible for the massacre of an arab village called Qibya:

Morris at p278

"Sharon and the IDF subsequently claimed the villagers had hidden in cellars and attics and there troops had been unaware of this when they blew up the buildings. But in truth the troops had moved from house to house, firing through windows and doorways, and Jordanian pathologists reported that most of the dead had been killed by bullets and shrapnel rather than by falling masonry or explosions. In any event, the operational orders, from CO central Command to the units involved, dated October 13, had explicitly odered "destruction and maximum killing"

And Sharon is now the Prime Minister. Maybe, just maybe the Arabs might know what happened to them at Deir Yassin, maybe, just maybe the arabs know what happened to them at Qibya.

I dont recall who said it but it is a truism. "Times change, but people dont"

Re: Re: Re: palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter To me its unconscionable why people keep making excuses for the Palestinians behavior. The fact of the matter is that it's no way to behave under any circumstances - period. It doesn't matter how oppressed they are. For fuck sake, there have been thousands of peoples in the history of the world who have suffered more brutal oppression than the Palestinians and yet who had the moral fiber not to resort to terrorism. Frankly, I believe anyone who sympathizes with the Palestinians is part of the problem because they're encouraging this sort of behavior which ought not to be encouraged. Arbiter

I thought the second part of my post was clear enough: i do NOT justify terrorism. killing innocent israelis is as bad as killin innocent palestinians, or somalis for that matter...
i was just trying to make some people understand the action reaction bit, and explain the reason some palestinians do what they do. Maybe tackling the reasons might be the mature way of dealing with the problem? rather than continuing to kill their innocent, or, for that matter, going to war with iraq.

quote:

I understand that you may oppose his opinions, but comparing him to a Nazi is ridiculous. I get extremely offend by that comparison and am kindly asking everyone to drop it!

No. Anyone who calls Palestinians, or any other people, "the pigs" and says that "these dirtbags need to be stomped out" only out of some self-given right is a nazi, and is advocating the same thing hitler & co were in the '30 and '40s. oh, and sharon is a war criminal, who uses exactly the same rethoric any other repressive leader uses. do i need to publish facts? anyone who doesn't know his record is ignorant, not me.

quote:

A shit like you at Oxford? God Save the Queen!

that's right, m8, a degree, a masters and now a phd. sod the queen, what r your qualifications?

quote:

CONQUERED THE AREA OF BIBLICAL ISRAEL, IN A DEFENSIVE BATTLE!!!

a defensive battle? u mean kicking out a people who have been there 4 2000 years is a defensive battle? there's twisted logic for u. do i need to define the mechanics of logic? can't be arsed... extremists like u only understand their own little thing.

quote:

How can any of you say anything? and that little 'not like what they did in 1948'! YOUR SO IGNORANT I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU!!! HOW ACN WAKE UP EVERYDAY NOT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT!?!?!?

see above. i don't expect u to know this (u don't know me at all) but i'm certainly not ignorant. well, it depends... we r all ignorant to a certain degree, but i know my limits. do u know yours? doesn't look like it to me.

now the best bit, the one i was waiting for:

quote:

But as we always see, even when Israel is mentioned, but the SUBJECT IS ABOUT PALESTINIANS THREATENING AMERICA, we find that it comes back to bashing jews and israel. Give it up you anti-semite lowlives!! YOU HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DESTROY THE JEWISH NATION FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS BUT IT NEVER WORKED!!!

yes, the moment u criticise a jew, or the israeli government it takes seconds b4 u get branded an anti-semite. people like u USE the holocaust as a justification of your views, and to shut up criticism. no, i'm not anything like an anti-semite: i have jewish relatives, some of whome have been in concentration camps, i have jewish friends (one of my best m8s, in fact). i also have moslem and hindi friends, and 1 who claims to b a jedi. having been a victim of a crime, allbeit one of the worst crimes in history, does not justify the oppression of another people.

quote:

YOU WANT MORE? OR DO YOU WANT TO CONTINEU BASHING MY PEOPLE BASED ON YOUR MISINFORMATION??? I WILL GIVE YOU HUNDREDS OF RESEARCHABLE AND BACKABLE QUOTES FROM ARABS ABOUT THE TRUTH

THE TRUTH!!! THE truth... so u believe your truth is the only one? is it possible that in this day and age people can still b wholly convinced that there is only one truth, and that theirs is the right one? arab integralists believe they have the truth, jewish integralists belive they have the truth. so they go about killing eachother in the name of truth. maybe the truth is that u're BOTH wrong?

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Originally posted by occrider I'm a pussy. I'm not gonna even TOUCH this topic.

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Although I will say that arbiter presents a very convincing and coherent argument. I won't go so far to say that I understand what kind of situation that they are in that would warrant such tactics, however I will say that perhaps their method should be examined more so than their cause.

(this goes for both sides involved in the conflict)

again, you take the words right out of my mouth.

All I can add to this discussion is one word: compassion

quote:

Jews should act like jews, after all they are the only civilization that exists from the biblical ages, (as noted by christians around the world, and muslims in fact too!)

However, the only civilization that continually lasted to these days from ancient times unchanged is the Chinese civilization.

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I'm sure with thousands of years of leadership and stories and books, and laws, (jewish law was what the ancient babylonians based their laws from, and thus we have the roots of todays modern laws) so why don't the jews act according to their own laws? but instead take a 'remixed' version done by whatever handful of countries that they can dwell in?

Ever heard of progress? Even if the jewish laws were the base for modern laws (although I really think Roman laws here had much more influence) that doesn't mean they shouldn't be changed or that they are the best ever created.

Btw, I can't help but notice the astounding similarity between melech_mike's and shlomo_hamalech's posts, infact they're so much similar that it seems to me like mike has taken another alias. First, the nicknames, melech_mike and shlomo_hamalech. They're both written in a same way and (ha)malech sounds very similar to melech. Both are writing god as g-d, because of the idea that god's name not only shouldn't be spoken, but that it shouldn't be written as well. Not many people share that opinion. Furthermore, shlomo and mike have a very very similar stance regarding Israel and Palestine. Some quotes are also very interesting:

mike:

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We have something that the other nations lack. We were chosen for the task to be G-d's "emissaries" to the rest of the world.

shlomo:

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Jews should act like jews, after all they are the only civilization that exists from the biblical ages

mike:

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This is our land... Not Arafat's!

shlomo:

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Everything on the east side of the jordan river was designated to its rightful owner.

There are surely more, but I'm too lazy to search.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Last time I checked there weren't any Native Americans going around trying to blow up American civilians. I wonder why that might be. Maybe it's because when fate handed them a shitty fortune, they decided to try and make the best of it despite their misfortunes instead of just feeling sorry for themselves and projecting their frustrations onto others in the form of violence. Is that too much to ask from the Palestinians? I don't think so. I'll start caring about Palestinians problems when they start acting mature and/or responsible.

There are few factors involved. First one is that the US has killed more than 90% of native americans. Second one is that native americans were on a very primitive level, they weren't organized like one homogenous grop, but instead consisted up of many loosley alligned tribes. Also I don't see how they could have tried to commit suicide bombing acts since they hardly had any gunpowder at all, not to mention any other more highly flamable/combustible substances. Also they lacked the ability to produce those as well.

well said tito.

the most dangerous thing in the world is religious fanaticism, be it from christians, moslems, jews or whatever. our two (?) israeli "friends" r clearly religious fanatics, who c no reason and take on the dogmas tought to them as irrefutable truths. it's because of these people (on either side of the wall) that innocents r still being slaughtered and maimed, and if there is a hell i'm sure they will b the first to go there.

btw. why tito? he was a dictator as well...

Re: Re: Re: Re: palestinians threaten to bomb america! and people scorn israel!??!

@NFA
Hehe, the reason I'm suspicious of the likes of you is the way you easily drop Nazi-comparisons. Note that in hardly any other conflict these way of "arguing" is used, it's only the case when Israeli actions are condemned. I've said it zillions of times in this forum but I'll say it again: Comparing anything(!) and anyone(!) with Nazis themselves or their actions, is ultimately playing down Nationalsozialism rather than "criticizing" anything else. Why dont you Israel "citics" finally get that in yor head? These comparisons don't impress or make your statements any truer or stronger, they merely disqualify you as some1 who can be taken seriously.
We've had tons of war-criminal discussions already, feel free to search this forum and discover how I shut up the mouths of many people who called Sharon a war-criminal and/or tried to contruct a correlation between Sharon's role in 1982 and today's Terrorism Industry in "Palestine".

Look, by "explaining" Terrorism you end up justifying it. Even if you don't intend to (although you surely do subconsciously)- the terrorists will interpret it this way. Forget it, man: People who are brainwashed enough to lose their lives for goals like these cannot be rationally neogtiated with. People in this position reached the point of no return; in fact they aren't to blame anyway. It's the people behind, the brainwashers and sick fundamentalists, who must be eliminated. By carefully studying the history of the conflict (the last decade will do it) you'll come to the conclusion that any concessions made to Terrorists were interpreted as weakness, thereby motivating the killings even more.
Just look at the very recent developments: In march 2002 a one sided cease fire proclaimed by Israel led to the biggest errorism wave in Israeli history: Almost 200 people were killed within 4 weeks. After an Israeli invasion and a reconquerment of the territories terrorism has almost halted. People who feared that the Invasion will just add more to the anger and hatred, and consequently will increase the rate of terrorism now admit that they've been wrong: The successful solution was the military one.
HOWEVER the final peace solution can never be reached by tanks and helicopters. But to reach that stage of diplomacy, a certain basis must be established - by military means.

Oh and try to think of your "explanation" this way: A girl is wearing a mini-skirt, looks awesome, plays with her legs and maintains eye contact with a guy next to her. They guy jumps on her and rapes her. Will you say that the girl is partially guilty of her own rape? Will you say that she provoked that crime? I hope you don't.

MELEK-MIKE i knew you were cheating on me!!!!! WHAT THE FUCK!!!


this slowmo- malek character is getting raped up the ass right now.... he is so brainwashed by fanaticism that he seems to self-righteously delete the palestinian plight and struggle.

Slow-malek...

Please so us a favor and terrorize yourself... your taking up our precious oxygen.

PS.... thanks for the set!!!

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Originally posted by ahlamalek why don't the moderators ban people that have nothing to do with trance and who post in politics.... this has became ridiculous. after melech_mike now this shlomo_shit dude

you all requested this forum, I was one of the only mods to say that this forum would be a bad idea, as far as I was concerned anything that has to do with politics or religion on a trance / music based forum is a BAD idea, spesh one that is as global as tranceaddict which attracts ppl from many races / religious backgrounds.

There will never ever be fair point of veiw, each member of each religion / race will be biased towards his own way of life and in some parts of the world, like the palestine / israli conflict, there is going to be very very strong veiws held by both sides, if they cant sort it out with thier leaders and debate on a governmental scale, how on earth do u expect it to be solved in a trance forum ?

The mods of these forums can only do so much, do u expect us all to be resident in this forum 24 / 7 so if one remark is made that is found offensive by 25% of you can then be deleted, then you are mistaken.
How are the mods of this board expected to act ? Us mods are also of different backgrounds and races and one mod may feel that a person has a justified point of veiw where as another mod may take offence.

The guidelines we follow are that we will wont let personal attacks take place, althou they do happen, we acknowledge that and do our best to prevent it.
But how can i be expected to delete / edit melech_mike's posts for example when He is stating his side of events, what makes his posts different to say cyrus_king's who is expressing his side of the story?


This forum is extremly hard to moderate, us mods have to be as fair as we can, we have to let both sides express their veiws, we do our best.
and for some of the younger mods who do not have the experience of dealing with political debate, or have the education to percive that 2 different cultures will have 2 completely differeing ideals of how life should be, how can they be expected to mod this forum justly ?

At the end of the day, if there is something that is offensive to u, PM a mod, make it know to that mod why u find it offensive and if the mod finds your complaint valid, then we will do something about it.

quote:

quote: Jews should act like jews, after all they are the only civilization that exists from the biblical ages, (as noted by christians around the world, and muslims in fact too!) However, the only civilization that continually lasted to these days from ancient times unchanged is the Chinese civilization.

then you can include the Hindus in the west as well. Although their lifestyle has changed, but many of their original attributes are still there, which I'm sure can also be said about the chinese civilization.

excellent rebuttal tho tito.

trance giant:

in telling s'body he/she is a nazi, i'm not arguing anything. i'm telling them they are nazis, full stop. i don't expect to change their views or get any sort of intelligent debate out of them, because by definintion nazis don't do that. and no, i don't reserve this expression exclusively for israelis. i'll just as happily call saddam hussein a nazi, or mugabe. i'm not downplaying anything: they're low-life and i tell them they're low-life.
and sharon is one of them, wether u like it or not, no matter how much sophism u stick into it.

by making a point i'm not justifying anything. only a person who is not capable of seeing more than 1 point of view can accuse me of condoning terrorism. i don't (again ). i simply hope people will b able to understand that maybe they are to blame as well, not only always the other side. a lot of terrorists are evil (nazis, if u like), but r u not capable of seriously asking WHY they are evil???
it's like condemming a mugger who has beaten up a pensioner in the street without asking why he did it. maybe he's shit poor? maybe he's shit poor because others haven't been arsed to give him an opportunity, because they were rich anyway?

u, on the other hand, appear to justify the war against palestinians, and in a way that has so many pitfalls i wonder why i bother pointing some out. of course terrorism stopped when israel attacked: the palestinians were too busy getting slaughtered and counting their dead children to do anything else. the military solution was the wrong one, because they made more orphans who will then want revenge. ever heard of the expression vicious circle. and don't u c that this war CANNOT B WON??? more killing, more martyrs, more revenge, more killing and so on. nobody will ever get them all, terrorist will keep coming, from other parts of the world if necessary, as long as u keep giving them a reason. and everytime more come they will be even more angry and fanatic, as the graves of their loved ones multiply, and as their sworn enemies steal more and more of their land and flattern more and more of their homes.
no. the last ten years of conflict are NOT enough to understand anything. the fatal error was made 50 odd years ago, when we british haded over a parcel of land populated by armed moslems, many of them fanatics, to a bunch of armed jews, many of them fanatics.

let me change conflict, to see if u can understand it this way. switch palestine for ireland, and israel for england.
we went in there, we treated them like shit for ages. we brought famine and death. we repressed their revolts in blood. though things chaged slightly, in the mid 20th century, catholics were still treated like shit. result: constant conflict and terrorism. note: i do not condone irish terrorist action, they r a nasty bunch of murderers. what was obtained was done so by other means. so when did a peace process become a possibility? when we pulled out (partially) and began to try and ensure fairness and equal opportunity to irish, scottish and english, catholics and protestants alike. granted, there's still a long way to go. but the vicious circle is slowly being eroded and a peaceful solution finally appears feasible.
i take it u would have continued stamping on them until there weren't any left? 'coz that's the only time they would have stopped fighting, just like the palestinians will keep fighting as long as they are treated as they are.

as for your girl example, u must have been wanking off on that one. i'm not going to bother arguing with such an evident provocation and such flawed logic.

oh, and did u vote haider in the last election? i wouldn't b surprised...

How did you know? Yes, I'm a Jewish masochist and therefore vote and support Haider's Freedom Party!
How funny and original of you







Okay, to be honest..I voted for the social democrats, sorry to disappoint you, mister....
The girl example is a perfect analogy to your way of "explaining" such inexcusable cruelities. And no, I don't really need to wank to my own logical analogies.

As for the "NAZI" word: You simply didnt get my point. I said that your inflationairy use of "NAZI" leads to a loss of its (negative) "value". Just like with money, ya know? Imagine when some day "Nazi" will be used like "twat", having lost all its hisorical backround and its power. The power of remembering, The power of learning from the past! All that will be harmed if guys like you keep dropping these terms inappropiately and extensively.
And on top of that you might and in fact surely do hurt many Jewish people's feelings when reaching the peak of perversion by comparing Jewish/Israelis to their own murderers from the past. And yes, some ppl deliberately take advantage of this perverse "irony". And it makes me sick.
I'm waiting for your elaboration concerning Sharon's "nazi" nature. I'm even more eager to hear how you're able to condemn Sharon while not mentioning Arafat a single time. Smells like bias.

I repeat: Even if you claim to merely look for the "real reason" behind terrorism, you ultimately reward it by assuming a logical explanation which ALWAYS ends up in justification! What has a logical explanation is logical and therefore justified, capisce?
Thus I always shiver when I hear shit like "yes this is horrible..BUT". There's no fucking "but"! In cases like Terrorism, the cruelst of cruel things, one MUST treat the problem with a "black-n-white" right/wrong approach. There can't be a compromise when it comes to the systematic, deliberate killing of civilians.

When I told you to look at the past decade, I was referring to the Palestinian Terrorism only. The entire conflict is much more complex and about 100 years old. But the Terrorism problem (the one originating in the occupied territories) starts off in 1994, after the Oslo agreement. Now analyse the action-reaction mechanism with regards to Palestinian Terrorism and you'll clearly see that it always INCREASED when diplomacy was the main approach. It's just a fucking historical fact! Look what happened after Israel's single-handed withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 2000: No end of Hezballah strikes, and a motivation for the Palestnians who think they could achieve the same by immitating the Lebanese Terrorism "policy". The new Intifada was born!
You demonstrate a huge deficit of knowledge about both the mentality and the infrastructure of Arab Terror: Hamas, Islamic Djihad et al. are "intelligent" "political" organs with a clear structure. They recruit and instrumenalize young boys, brainwash them and cynically use them as human bombs. This shows us that Terrorism is NOT a spontaneous expression of frustration. It doesn't grown on trees and grows with anger! It's merely a "policy" carried out by the heads of Hamas etc. (who cooperate with Arafat btw.)
ALL(!) Israeli actions were therefore targeted at their heads, headquarters, infrastructure. No "war on the palestinian people" has been proclamied. Never.

As I said: As soon as this desease called Terror has been eliminated, diplomacy can come into play and give the poor Palestnian People everything they've been deprived of for decades (but not only by Israel, think of their Arab "brothers" too). End of fucking story.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant The girl example is a perfect analogy to your way of "explaining" such inexcusable cruelities. And no, I don't really need to wank to my own logical analogies.

and how about the way u explain the cruelties of your beloved regime? not only do u explain it, u advocate more violence still. u r part of the problem, and u r no different than the terrorists and their political leaders u hate.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant As for the "NAZI" word: You simply didnt get my point. I said that your inflationairy use of "NAZI" leads to a loss of its (negative) "value". Just like with money, ya know? Imagine when some day "Nazi" will be used like "twat", having lost all its hisorical backround and its power. The power of remembering, The power of learning from the past! All that will be harmed if guys like you keep dropping these terms inappropiately and extensively. And on top of that you might and in fact surely do hurt many Jewish people's feelings when reaching the peak of perversion by comparing Jewish/Israelis to their own murderers from the past. And yes, some ppl deliberately take advantage of this perverse "irony". And it makes me sick.

ok, i take your point. but has it never occured to u that i was being provocative? it may hurt a few feelings, but maybe it will make a few right-wing tits reflect a little, and anlyze their thoughts/actions. i try to make ppl like u bloody stop it with this victim culture whereby they seem to think that because they have been victims of one of the most atrocious crimes (!not the only one) in history, they are justified in doing as they like in the conviction that they are right. u can be a victim of abuse, but that does not justify u abusing others. and that is what too many jews r doing. and who dares point this out is immediately an anti-semite. i was going to attach an article by david aaronvitch (a jew), who explains this very well, but the website is donwn at the mo.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant I'm waiting for your elaboration concerning Sharon's "nazi" nature. I'm even more eager to hear how you're able to condemn Sharon while not mentioning Arafat a single time. Smells like bias.

sharon's war crimes r well documented. if u choose to ignore them, then u will.
and i HAVE mentioned arafat. i think he's a wanker, a fanatic, a despot and a terrorist, and i've said so many times. the sooner he goes the better. u smell bias? that's 'coz u want to smell bias.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant I repeat: Even if you claim to merely look for the "real reason" behind terrorism, you ultimately reward it by assuming a logical explanation which ALWAYS ends up in justification! What has a logical explanation is logical and therefore justified, capisce? Thus I always shiver when I hear shit like "yes this is horrible..BUT". There's no fucking "but"! In cases like Terrorism, the cruelst of cruel things, one MUST treat the problem with a "black-n-white" right/wrong approach. There can't be a compromise when it comes to the systematic, deliberate killing of civilians.

this is the rhetoric of a fascist. i have nothing to say to such a single-minded person, apart from the fact that u consider the murder jewish civilians as a crime, but condone the murder of arabs. not the same eh? they not really ppl, r they? u make me sick.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant ALL(!) Israeli actions were therefore targeted at their heads, headquarters, infrastructure. No "war on the palestinian people" has been proclamied. Never.

then why do u keep killing innocents? does targeting 1 person justify killing thousands along the way?

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant As I said: As soon as this desease called Terror has been eliminated, diplomacy can come into play and give the poor Palestnian People everything they've been deprived of for decades (but not only by Israel, think of their Arab "brothers" too). End of fucking story.

if u seriously believe that is sharon and co.s intentions, u r just a gullible fool. the conflict started because u invaded their land, and u will keep on doing that war or no war. u conveniantely forget this point everytime, yet it is the very route of the problem.

i c i'm wasting my time with a single minded little fascist here, who's incapable of seeing the whole point.
got better things to do, such as scratching my arse, or staring into thin air. besides, shouldn't u b in bed? or doing your home-work?

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