TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Problems/Closing the Political Discussion/Debate Forum
Pages (4): [1] 2 3 4 »

Problems/Closing the Political Discussion/Debate Forum

Wicked_Neo wrote:

quote:

you all requested this forum, I was one of the only mods to say that this forum would be a bad idea, as far as I was concerned anything that has to do with politics or religion on a trance / music based forum is a BAD idea, spesh one that is as global as tranceaddict which attracts ppl from many races / religious backgrounds. There will never ever be fair point of veiw, each member of each religion / race will be biased towards his own way of life and in some parts of the world, like the palestine / israli conflict, there is going to be very very strong veiws held by both sides, if they cant sort it out with thier leaders and debate on a governmental scale, how on earth do u expect it to be solved in a trance forum ? The mods of these forums can only do so much, do u expect us all to be resident in this forum 24 / 7 so if one remark is made that is found offensive by 25% of you can then be deleted, then you are mistaken. How are the mods of this board expected to act ? Us mods are also of different backgrounds and races and one mod may feel that a person has a justified point of veiw where as another mod may take offence. The guidelines we follow are that we will wont let personal attacks take place, althou they do happen, we acknowledge that and do our best to prevent it. But how can i be expected to delete / edit melech_mike's posts for example when He is stating his side of events, what makes his posts different to say cyrus_king's who is expressing his side of the story? This forum is extremly hard to moderate, us mods have to be as fair as we can, we have to let both sides express their veiws, we do our best. and for some of the younger mods who do not have the experience of dealing with political debate, or have the education to percive that 2 different cultures will have 2 completely differeing ideals of how life should be, how can they be expected to mod this forum justly ? At the end of the day, if there is something that is offensive to u, PM a mod, make it know to that mod why u find it offensive and if the mod finds your complaint valid, then we will do something about it.

I personally love this thread for what it is. A place where intellectuals ( ) who have something in common (trance and the activities that are linked to this style of music), can come together and discuss politics/religion and other issues that arise. its a place that no matter what race, culture, religion or creed you identify with, you could contribute your opinions, and comments on the issues that effect the world in which we live in.

I would NEVER like to see this Forum closed -- the whole purpose of this forum is to discuss and debate. When theres a debate taking place there are usualy 3 sides. those who are for, those who oppose, and those who choose to remain neutral.

Difference in opinions will often lead to heated arguements, name-calling (sometimes out of frusteration, but usualy out of immaturity), and views that may sometimes be considered offensive to some. This whole issue of offensive material is a totally relative subject. One may find my opinions to simply be raising awareness of the realities of an issue at hand, while others may find it to be a touchy subject and one where they might have their feelings hurt.

In regards to the MODS, i do not feel that they should be so actively involved in the moderation of this forum.
MODS are only human and are subject to the same emotions as the rest of the TA's on this board. Like wicked_neo mentioned earlier, what one MOD feels is offensive, may be a totally ligit opinion to another MOD.
There is no room for biases amungst the MODS, this board caters to everyone, and every opinions should be equally respected and allowed.
I dont expect my opinions to sit will with everyone.

If you feel that someone is posting something that is wrong, than tell them and back it up with sources/facts! Debate them! thats what this forum is all about! dont just bitch them out like some of you have been doing, flaming wont get anyone anywhere. challenge these people views, maybe you'll learn something!

I have never initiated a PM to a MOD complaining abuot anyones posts although i have found many to be out of line or straight out offensive to me or to other TA's. It wont help if i get someone suspended/banned because they will just go away having the same ideals/opinions in they're head as when they started with they're ignorant remarks. When you are able to converse with someone who has opposing views, than thats when your able to learn first hand what the other issues are that you may not have thought of otherwise.

Its obvious that we all dont have the same feelings and opinions towards everything that effects this world. thats what makes as all individuals and unique. Those who are ignorant to some of the topics we discuss can sharpen their knowledge on the suject from those who are self-proclaimed experts (be careful who you talk to and always remember to investigate any claim to its fullest!).

Once again, i call for less action to be taken by MODS (unless they learn to equally and fairly moderate the debates -- which i feel is nearly impossible!), and less idiots posting flame filled posts.

It doesn't help calling Cyrus_Queen a fuck up... he knows he's one and i know it! End of story! Why continue back and forth flamming -- just makes for more unwanted drama and feelings getting hurt. Unfortuately there are some amounst us that are little pussies who cant take the blow of someone insulting them, or challenging their views -- as if they're egos, and confidence in the issues/themselves are so weak.

So basically, if you cant handle the discussions that take place on this forum, i suggest you best keep yourself out off it.

My opinions, no matter how supported or opposed they are by the rest of the TA's should be allowed to stick. Just as those opinions of other TA's who i feel have crossed the line many times before and after my suspention, are allowed to stick without a single word of disaproval from a MOD.

Neo and the rest of the mods, i appreciate your efforts on keeping this environment friendly. I for one feel that anytime politics or religion is discussed, things get dirty. You have people who will give their lives for one cause, and others who are just as eager to put their life on the line for whatever the cause may be that they live for.

Break down that wall of ignorance that someone (family, friend, media, ect..) has set up before you. Learn the facts!!!
Find out the truth for yourself and investigate far deeper than you have so far. You will see why so many get offended when i or others who hold my opinions, express ourselves.
Like i've said a hundred times before -- THE TRUTH HURTS!

www.honestreporting.com
www.opsick.com
www.fortruthsake.com
www.debka.com

I second this. Id love to write more but youve said everything needed.
oh ya, thanx for the links

From what I've seen, pretty much everyone in this forum, from those who share my oppinions on war and politics, to those who hold the opposite views, argue intelligently and don't make too many stupid peronal attacks. The ones that are made are usually minor ones relavent to what they are talking about, and are usually a one time deal.

Please don't close this forum. I can safely say that I've learned much more on this forum than on any of the others, plus it's a great way of keeping up to date with world affairs. If you miss something important, another member will usually make a thread about, and you can read/ponder wonderful articles that you would have otherwise unfortunately missed. Once again, please, DO NOT close this forum!

Re: Problems/Closing the Political Discussion/Debate Forum

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike It doesn't help calling Cyrus_Queen a fuck up... he knows he's one and i know it! End of story! Why continue back and forth flamming

That's no way to talk to your wife! Hmmmm have you guys figured out who the wife is or are you both wives? Well the month is almost up! It's time to make nominations for the new tranceaddict couple of the month!

Re: Re: Problems/Closing the Political Discussion/Debate Forum

quote:

Originally posted by occrider That's no way to talk to your wife! Hmmmm have you guys figured out who the wife is or are you both wives? Well the month is almost up! It's time to make nominations for the new tranceaddict couple of the month!

Apparently....my wife has cheated on me. He said that he wanted to marry Arbiter... and now i think this shlomo character is joining them in a triangular marriage...

So in the end... i dont think were getting married. Even if we did, he would not really like it if my father arafat and his father Sharon were in the same mosque.

Re: Re: Re: Problems/Closing the Political Discussion/Debate Forum

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Apparently....my wife has cheated on me. He said that he wanted to marry Arbiter... and now i think this shlomo character is joining them in a triangular marriage... So in the end... i dont think were getting married. Even if we did, he would not really like it if my father arafat and his father Sharon were in the same mosque.

Hahahahha I never would have thought that it wouldnt have worked out. I almost miss the fights you guys got into. It was actually semi-comical.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Problems/Closing the Political Discussion/Debate Forum

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Hahahahha I never would have thought that it wouldnt have worked out. I almost miss the fights you guys got into. It was actually semi-comical.

Oh trust me.... as long as we are both in these forums.. there will be a continuos argument.

quote:

Oh trust me.... as long as we are both in these forums.. there will be a continuos argument.

I second that! No, make it a triple!

Besides the problem of my father Sharon and your father Arafat getting along... your also messed up... you keep thinking you are the man in the relationship. You dress and try to act like a guy, i just cant flow with someone like that -- understand my pain!?

Arbiter treats me better, he only wants the best for this world and i'm sure he wouldn't mind converting into my religion (hehe).

Hmmm... who could be this coming months most saught after couple?

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=92583

This is the first time I almost completely agree with Melech_Mike. It seems the only thing we all can agree on is that we want this forum.

Hahaha I like how you inserted that "almost" in there. I think it's kind of funny how even when it comes to the existence of this forum you guys can't just "completely" agree.

quote:

This is the first time I almost completely agree with Melech_Mike. It seems the only thing we all can agree on is that we want this forum.

Owww... thanks for the letter of approval.

yes, we do all have different opinions, and we as mods accept this as it is what a forum is truly all about. but however, there are a lot of people in here who reduce to flaming and such-like.. this is a widespread problem on tranceaddict, caused by the immaturity of certain members. if no-body flames then all is good.

the problem we have here, is extremist veiws. trancEaddict as a whole does not condone these veiws, which is why we intervene in threads such as yours melech_mike. we cannot allow these veiws on our forums, whichever side they come from. now i know that the situation in israel is a very touchy one, but no matter what ppl have done to you, implying and wanting your people to do the same back makes you just as bad.

some comments made by yourself are such comments, in particular the ones regarding the palestinian people.

during this time of unsettlement in the world, it may cause more argument than its worth (and thus more policing than its worth) to keep it open. now im not saying that it will definatly close, but what i am saying is that peoples behaviour WILL BE TO BLAME if the forum does close.

the ball is most definatly in your court guys..

quote:

yes, we do all have different opinions, and we as mods accept this as it is what a forum is truly all about. but however, there are a lot of people in here who reduce to flaming and such-like.. this is a widespread problem on tranceaddict, caused by the immaturity of certain members. if no-body flames then all is good. the problem we have here, is extremist veiws. trancEaddict as a whole does not condone these veiws, which is why we intervene in threads such as yours melech_mike. we cannot allow these veiws on our forums, whichever side they come from. now i know that the situation in israel is a very touchy one, but no matter what ppl have done to you, implying and wanting your people to do the same back makes you just as bad. some comments made by yourself are such comments, in particular the ones regarding the palestinian people. during this time of unsettlement in the world, it may cause more argument than its worth (and thus more policing than its worth) to keep it open. now im not saying that it will definatly close, but what i am saying is that peoples behaviour WILL BE TO BLAME if the forum does close. the ball is most definatly in your court guys..

TrancEaddict doesn't condone many views made by its members on the board. we do not all think like the creators of the board... once again its what makes us individuals. If we all thought like those who created the board, than there would be no discussions taken place -- there would simply be no one arguing an opposing view!

What is an extremist view? What you find extreme, one may find moderate. its really all relative! I find comments comparing 'Nazi's' or 'Hitler'(may he burn in hell!) to Israelis VERY extreme!!! it should be banned all together if people continue using it offensively and incorrectly!

I do not wish upon the Palestinian peoples the same as they have been doing to the Israelis. I just dont agree with the means by which they wish to have their voices heard. Terrorism should NOT be a factor in negociations!! We all know that the bully is usualy wrong... and supporting the bully will only show others like him, that its okay to resort to violence to get your way!!

I have beef with the governments that support such terrorist activities, and the organizations who commit these violent acts!

quote:

during this time of unsettlement in the world, it may cause more argument than its worth (and thus more policing than its worth) to keep it open. now im not saying that it will definatly close, but what i am saying is that peoples behaviour WILL BE TO BLAME if the forum does close.

I don't see what sort of argument it will cause. The more unsettlement in the world, the more reason it should be talked about, and we shouldn't cover our ears and just say "It's happening far away from me, I don't care about it, music is my life". I don't think just because about 2% of posts here could be considered ignorant should this forum be closed. And I think if this forum were to close, you'd see many topics in the chillout room about wanting this forum back.

quote:

Hahaha I like how you inserted that "almost" in there. I think it's kind of funny how even when it comes to the existence of this forum you guys can't just "completely" agree.

Even if we are united in a common goal, that doesn't mean we think the same in every aspect.

Please don't close this forum, i love it here. that is all.

For the first time I agree with Melech here .
The fact that we all like trance and music and so on, on this forum, there is a sports section, video games section and humors section, which also has nothing to do with Trance. Politics, is made up of debates, discussions and disagreenments. You cant expect to be total peace and acceptance inbetween opinions. Thats what makes politics interesting. You see and read the different points of views, and dont just see one side of a coin. This society cant be perfect to expect always the best and good. You see more of flaming on the music discussion the here in political forum hehehehe .. Tiesto vs. PvD or Oakenfold Vs. the 100th DJ's there is outside. I mean, if there wasent discussing and disagreenments, its not politics. Now, to the offensive part of things, yes, some people make stupid comments, but thats been around for ages here on TA, it doesnt hurt to ignore, and we dont expect mods to delete them also... people know when things are right and wrong.. right guys ! ?

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike TrancEaddict doesn't condone many views made by its members on the board. we do not all think like the creators of the board... once again its what makes us individuals. If we all thought like those who created the board, than there would be no discussions taken place -- there would simply be no one arguing an opposing view! What is an extremist view? What you find extreme, one may find moderate. its really all relative! I find comments comparing 'Nazi's' or 'Hitler'(may he burn in hell!) to Israelis VERY extreme!!! it should be banned all together if people continue using it offensively and incorrectly! I do not wish upon the Palestinian peoples the same as they have been doing to the Israelis. I just dont agree with the means by which they wish to have their voices heard. Terrorism should NOT be a factor in negociations!! We all know that the bully is usualy wrong... and supporting the bully will only show others like him, that its okay to resort to violence to get your way!! I have beef with the governments that support such terrorist activities, and the organizations who commit these violent acts!

the fact that we have had many complaints about posts which you have made (and for which you have previously been suspended) says in itself that some of the comments you have made were extreme enough. in your above post, you have pretty much summed it up... you refer to the palestinian people as a whole, when it is infact not the entirity of their people which are doing harm to your own, but muslim extremist groups.. put it this way, the IRA have been planting bombs in major cites across the UK for over 20 years, but when i bitch about it i bitch about the IRA, not the irish people. you say you have a beef with the governments and organisations that do these things.. then dont call all arabs pigs.

as for the nazi comments, no-one should ever think of calling anyone a nazi.. facist is the term to use instead.. theres a subtle difference. NFA was wrong to compare you to a nazi, but in terms of making facist statements.. your certainly guilty of that.

tu_face wrote:

quote:

the fact that we have had many complaints about posts which you have made (and for which you have previously been suspended) says in itself that some of the comments you have made were extreme enough.

So if i get enough people to complain about your posts, that says that what your doing here is extreme or wrong? If i get a few of my TA buddies to complain about one specific person (as done to me just b4 my suspention), than that automatically labels them an extremist who should get banned? No, your wrong!!! My opinions were not excepted because i was the only one who supported them. Me, being the minority only made it easier for people to complain about my opinions. Its easy to shut one person up, but when you have many with the same view, no matter how extreme, you wouldn't dare challenge them would you. Its bias. Plain and simple! There is no room for MOD's to interviene here... it just doesn't work. your biases show through your (in)actions.

quote:

in your above post, you have pretty much summed it up... you refer to the palestinian people as a whole, when it is infact not the entirity of their people which are doing harm to your own, but muslim extremist groups.. put it this way, the IRA have been planting bombs in major cites across the UK for over 20 years, but when i bitch about it i bitch about the IRA, not the irish people. you say you have a beef with the governments and organisations that do these things.. then dont call all arabs pigs.

Your right on this; its percisely what i was trying to say. i do not blame the Palestinian peoples for the actions of their dictator leaders! these are horrible regimes and they cant exist in a free world that is becoming smaller and smaller each day! Globalization is here, we cant just shut out those countries who we dont agree with anymore. I try and always say that its 'extremist muslim groups' who are responsible for the shit thats happening throughout the world, and not the peoples who have to live in fear under these cruel oppressive regimes whose leader has no respect what so ever for human rights! I did not call arabs pigs... i'm pretty sure you were refering to something shlomo_hamelech wrote. Non-the-less, he did not say ALL arabs!!!

quote:

as for the nazi comments, no-one should ever think of calling anyone a nazi.. facist is the term to use instead.. theres a subtle difference.

Thanks you for your support on this issue! Its greatly appreciated not only by me, but i know for a fact many TA's will be happy that you cleared it up for those who love that word all to much!

quote:

NFA was wrong to compare you to a nazi, but in terms of making facist statements.. your certainly guilty of that.

Once again, NFA didn't call me a Nazi, i think your once again mistakening me for shlomo_hamelech. Apology excepted! About me being guilty of facist statements... all i have to say is Heh! Whats so facist about my statements? The fact that i dare call a terrorist what he is... a piece of shit who deserves to burn in hell with his whole disgusting family (don even start with the family thing... in over 90% of cases where a homicide bomber kills himself, his family knows about it and does nothing to stop this horror-- they are just as equally responsible for the deaths caused). And if you still think my remarks are facist like... why dont you inquire abuot other comments made on this board that many find 10x more facist! This is politics... things get dirty in here. Thats life -- deal with it!

I'd like to thank you tu_face for opening yourself up to this discussion. It seems as though the other MOD's hide when they get challenged! What roll models they are huh!

here i come :)

first...

quote:

NFA was wrong to compare you to a nazi, but in terms of making facist statements.. your certainly guilty of that.

LOL

NFA CALLED ME A NAZI!!

in reply to my post about palestinian government legislator's talking about making suicide bombs to america.


I don't have much time to post, but let me say quickly...

my views about this forum have been stated. I think it will just degrade, unless everyone puts an effort to attack the arguments and not the people.

I was called a Nazi, and obviousyl coming from someone on some board online I don't even know, and who doesn't even know me, it doesn't mean very much!!

The problem as I see it is that as a minority, our true story is often left to outsiders, who take a look when its a 'hot story' and sum it up for people. I get too frustrated at people's lack of care in talking about something that affects my people, and obviously many other people around the world! If ANYONE SHOULD BE BANNED it should be those that try to attack a person's credibility by using the way-too-often-used terms of 'extremist', 'fanatical' etc... These terms are thrown around so often they lose their meaning and are just used as a way to damage someone's credibility.

For instance: This is fact what is about to be stated:

THE PALESTINIANS WERE ALWAYS KNOWN AS THE JEWS WHO LIVED IN THE LANDS OWNED BY THEN, TURKS, AND THEN, BRITISH. Arabs only came here to dwell and always had a strong patriotic feeling with their native countries. When all the balagan started, only in 1964 did the P.L.O. establish itself, with the sole idea of 'throwing the jews into the sea' therefore by definition the P.L.O. which is a hoax native organization (the jews are the natives, we have always remained in israel even in a small presence, and so much archeological evidence proves it as well, but we are just going to ignore all that right??) came and started to claim 'this is our land'. Anyways to the point... The modern day palestinians as a whole are basically arabs from surrounding lands, that have no historical claim to this land what so ever. Anyone who comes here will see for themselves bottom line. The fact is, that anyone who is really strong, will not back down to what the modern day history re-writers want us to believe, that there is some moral justification and legal justification for Israel to give even 1cm of land to any foreign arab identity no matter WHO IT IS!!


Now I could go more but its an example. How many of you say that my view is extremist now?? i'm sure 90%. But what is extreme about it? extreme fact and truth? its EXTREME as melech_mike stated, relative to your views and your knowledge on the subject.

So basically, anyone being 'extreme' its most of the time just a BS excuse to damage one's credibilty for what they have to say, and to make others not want to listen!

this is the real problem on this board!! villification!!!

People like melech_mike are not extremist at all. I know for fact he will never be brainwashed to kill anyone. Because his views are passionate, and not logically wrong which could led to unlogical decisions. He is logical. Unfortunely, I lack his ability to be so politically correct and balanced now that he has been banned apparently a few times.. but whateva!!! soon i'll be at his caliber


anyways have a good day!

the new dj joop @ trance energy 10 is amazing!

SHLOMO ELIYAHU BARON!!

p.s. i just want to use this p.s. to bash arafat as a terrorist, all their organization as terrorists, and the entire palestinian infrustructure as a terrorist organization going country-style with the hopes of destroying what the arab world see's as 'little america' which is Israel! the culture for the children is breeding killers.

look at www.opsick.com they have info on what the palestinian authority is doing. there are more sites if u care to look.

Anyways, on this subject, guys write up your problems with what I say, and put it on a sticky paper... in 2 years from now, lets see what your saying. I'm sure atleast 90% of you will start seeing things differently within the next few years... also, on the trance aspect fastmp3 may be a great guy, but in this forum, i just hear him spilling for flith about anything we say good about jews and israel etc... he is obviously not objective, and I want to say, i got my eye on him for posts!!!

I think closing the forum would be severe overkill, the simplest solution is to deal with any trouble makers individually.

Just the simple subject of this forum tells people that you can expect heated debate sometimes, its just part of life. However people that can do nothing but insult instead of debate, use personal attacks, or can't let something go; should be removed.

Its not hard to show basic respect for others, anyone with an open mind knows that you have to respect others viewpoints to discuss with them your viewpoint.

first off, i apologise for mixing you 2 up (shlomo_hamalech & melech_mike), but your posts are all very similar.. so im sure you see why the confusion occurred

in response to mike: the reason you got suspended before was because of the comments you had in your signature.. stating bad things about the arab people. that will never pass.. you deserved it.

the fact is, statements by you and shlomo_hamalech cause complaints. when complaints are put forward we have to act upon them.. now ill be the first person to say that i am not as knowledgable as some people on the situation in israel, but ill also be the first to say that comments that provoke these complaints need to stop, no matter what that situation is.

as you said, this is politics and things get dirty... that is the root of the problem in this forum. the things discussed in here are often very close to peoples hearts, so comments will be taken to heart and thus replied to with flames. all i ask is for you to think about the repercussions of what you post.

quote:

in response to mike: the reason you got suspended before was because of the comments you had in your signature.. stating bad things about the arab people. that will never pass.. you deserved it

Excuse me??
I wasn't suspended because of my Signature!!!
I was suspended before i changed my signature to that of websites that do not support anything hate filled, nothing of propaganda,no lies, JUST truths!

I was suspended because a group of TA's who opposed my anti-palestine -- anti-terror remarks complained enough to the MODS, who in turn made a very poor decision when thinking of how to act upon the complaints put forth.
once again, i will quote a part of a previous post for you, you seem to have missed this part of it:

quote:

So if i get enough people to complain about your posts, that says that what your doing here is extreme or wrong? If i get a few of my TA buddies to complain about one specific person (as done to me just b4 my suspention), than that automatically labels them an extremist who should get banned? No, your wrong!!! My opinions were not excepted because i was the only one who supported them. Me, being the minority only made it easier for people to complain about my opinions. Its easy to shut one person up, but when you have many with the same view, no matter how extreme, you wouldn't dare challenge them would you. Its bias. Plain and simple! There is no room for MOD's to interviene here... it just doesn't work. your biases show through your (in)actions.

Back to my Signature... it was taken away a few times and replaced with "signature suspended as it was deemed offensive". I have yet to hear an argument for what was considered offensive in any of those websites? If the truth is too extreme and harsh for you, than dont get yourself involved! The truth often times hurts people -- its not the falasies they so dearly love to soak their minds in.

I will once again list the main links to the sites i had in my Signature, I ask anyone to tell me what is offensive material in those sites... please look for any lies, historical falasies, racism, hate filled remarks of any sort towards anyone.

Take the challenge... you wont find something that isn't the truth here!
Honest Reporting
Operation S.I.C.K.
Myths & Facts -- A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict
Palestine Facts
Fact Sheet!!
Debkafile -- Political Analysis, Espionage, Terrorism Security

Get a clue!

the truth, the truth, the truth...

quote:

the truth, the truth, the truth...

Dont roll your eyes at me!!
If you dont agree with one or more of these websites please refernce what site and what part you have a problem with. Refute anything that you feel is wrong/propaganda/lies/incitment!

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.