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Whos Comparing.......

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Victims of Haifa bus blast on Wed. March 5 Fifteen Israelis died and more than 40 were injured when a Palestinian bomber blew up the Egged 37 bus on a busy street in Haifa on Wednesday March 5, 2003. Most of the victims were schoolchildren. The forceful impact of the blast made victim identification difficult and slow: Their names are: Yuval Mendelovitch, 13, from Haifa Staff Sgt. Barry Oved, 21, from Rosh Pina Staff Sgt. Eliahu Lacham, 22, from Haifa Abigail Leitel, 14, from Haifa Daniel Harush, 16, from Safed Kmar Abu Khamed, 13, from Daliat al-Carmel Mitel Katav, 20, from Haifa Assaf Zur, 17, from Haifa Tom Hershko, 16, from Haifa and his father Mordecai Hershko, 41 Marak Takash, 54, from Haifa Semadar Firstetter, 17, from Haifa Tal Kirman, 17, from Haifa Miriam Attar, 27, from Haifa Elizabetha Katzman, 16, from Haifa

How the FUCK do some of you compare the Arabs/Palestinians targeted killings of innocent civilians (look at their ages!!!), to the targeted killings of KNOWN TERRORISTS by the Israeli military?

This kind of shit makes me want to gut every single one of you who support this shit... anyone who compares the two sides and anyone whos abuot to say that Israel is bringing this upon themselves. FUCK!!!!!!!!

Think carefully about this... whatever you might argue, i know that in your hearts and in your minds you know your comparisons between the two sides are flawed!

May g-d rest their souls!

Re: Whos Comparing.......

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike How the FUCK do some of you compare the Arabs/Palestinians targeted killings of innocent civilians (look at their ages!!!), to the targeted killings of KNOWN TERRORISTS by the Israeli military? This kind of shit makes me want to gut every single one of you who support this shit... anyone who compares the two sides and anyone whos abuot to say that Israel is bringing this upon themselves. FUCK!!!!!!!! Think carefully about this... whatever you might argue, i know that in your hearts and in your minds you know your comparisons between the two sides are flawed! May g-d rest their souls!

I don't support this "shit" at all. It's absolutly horrible, and makes me sick.
And I don't think anyone on these boards is in support of terrorism and killing.
Don't you see. You're viewing us using the same manner as muslims and terrorists do by your stereotypical profiling of us (or anyone who argues against your post) as "supporting this shit."

When two sides (Jews and the Muslims) maintain viewing the other side in manners such as this, the struggle continues and each side thinks that the other is wrong or "evil" and that they are in the right.
I think it is horrible that palastinians target civilians and children (or anyone for that manner), and I'm not opposed to the Isreali's pursuing known terrorists.
Problem is and (and this is a reason people claim that isreal brings it on itself) is that they recklessly pursue terrorists. They use military might and end up killing civilians of the palistians side.
Thus they see the Isreali's as oppressing them and they want revenge, just as the Isreali's want revenge for the slaughtering of their innocents.

Never has Israel taken "revenge", that's simply how the media shows it. If Israel would've wanted to strike back for the sake of killing some of their ppl ,too, what would be easier for the "almighty" military then bomb some vegetable market in Hebron or commit a massacre with hundreds of deaths?
All you hear about is collateral damage. And it's simple: When Israel doesn't have to act against terrorists anymore there won't be any unintended killings of civilians either. Only the Palestinians can close this circle.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant Only the Palestinians can close this circle.

I agree, but the Israeli's (much more indirectly than directly) are preventing them from closing it.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant Never has Israel taken "revenge", that's simply how the media shows it. If Israel would've wanted to strike back for the sake of killing some of their ppl ,too, what would be easier for the "almighty" military then bomb some vegetable market in Hebron or commit a massacre with hundreds of deaths? All you hear about is collateral damage. And it's simple: When Israel doesn't have to act against terrorists anymore there won't be any unintended killings of civilians either. Only the Palestinians can close this circle.

You say that Israel doesnt take revenge.....Well.... last night they bombed a crowd of palestinians watching a fire being doused......This "retaliation" is what fuels this hatred on both sides... but a government taking a vengful response is more sickening than a crazy suicide bomber going insane.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2824363.stm

yes, i just read about that as well, here is another link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/06/i...&partner=GOOGLE

I find it hard to believe this is not a revenge killing.
this is horrible, and i think that both sides need to stop.

both sides have a goal, and are persuing it with disregard for human life.

it was an operation carried out in the refugee camp jabaliyah in gaza strip totally indepently from the attack on the previous day. I ask again: If Israel really deliberately killed those people as a form of retaliation, why not use its full power and nuke entire cities?
dont be stupid plz

You dont be stupid!


If Israel were to Nuke the palestinian settlements.. they would be wiped off the face of this earth by the middle east... let alone the rest of the world.

Even if it were an "operation".... it still targeted innocent civilians.... but i still think its revenge o the part of the ISareli government seeing that it happened right after the bus bombing.... you honestly think its just a timely coincidence?

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Originally posted by Cyrus King You dont be stupid! If Israel were to Nuke the palestinian settlements.. they would be wiped off the face of this earth by the middle east... let alone the rest of the world. Even if it were an "operation".... it still targeted innocent civilians.... but i still think its revenge o the part of the ISareli government seeing that it happened right after the bus bombing.... you honestly think its just a timely coincidence?

yes its "coincidence" since such actions took place before yesterday's attack as well. There no correlation whatsoever. Since March 2002 Israel officially changed its politics from mere reacting to active fighting against terrorism, independet of immediate attacks (but in case the palest. terrorism totally stops there wont be such operations either). It did NOT target civilians. It's not Israel's fault the terrorist cowards hide in refugee camps in gaza city.

Oh and about Israel being wiped out by the middle east....dont be pathetic...The Arab world is still psychologically suffering from embarassing defeats by the "tiny" Israel.

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Originally posted by TranceGiant Oh and about Israel being wiped out by the middle east....dont be pathetic...The Arab world is still psychologically suffering from embarassing defeats by the "tiny" Israel.

Yep you're right; Israel is undefeatable. All tremble before the all mighty Israel.

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Originally posted by Nalin Yep you're right; Israel is undefeatable. All tremble before the all mighty Israel.

yet another highly constructive contribution by you. why don't u just keep quiet if u've got nothing relevant to say?

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant yet another highly constructive contribution by you. why don't u just keep quiet if u've got nothing relevant to say?

that is relative mr. illiterate; i'm not not the one making your arrogant comments, you are

Entry: relevant
Function: adjective
Definition: appropriate
Synonyms: accordant, ad rem, admissible, allowable, applicable, applicatory, apposite, appurtenant, apt, becoming, cognate, compatible, concerning, conformant, conforming, congruent, congruous, consistent, consonant, correlated, correspondent, fit, fitting, germane, harmonious, important, material, pat, pertaining to, pertinent, pointful, proper, referring, related, relative, significant, suitable, suited, weighty
Concept: suitability

www.dictionary.com

I ran into this article today, it was an investigation about how many Palestinians want the suicide attacks to stop. The investigation was set up by the country of Egypt.

quote:

Meeste Palestijnen: stop zelfmoordaanslagen Gepost door Marina (Snuggs) - donderdag 6 maart 2003 @ 11:02 - Bron: Gazet van Antwerpen Uit een onderzoek van de universiteit van Bir Zeit op de westelijke Jordaanoever blijkt dat 2 op 3 Palestijnen (68,4 procent) zich uitspreekt voor het stopzetten van de zelfmoordaanslagen op burgers als dit leidt tot een akkoord. 13,6 procent is zelfs voor onvoorwaardelijke stopzetting. Toch zijn er nog 28 procent van de Palestijnen voor het voortzetten van de aanslagen. Het initiatief voor het stopzetten van de aanslagen kwam van Egypte.

source: http://frontpage.fok.nl/news.fok?id=26649

I know this is in Dutch so I will tell you the numbers that came out.

68,4 % wants the suicide attacks to stop
13.6 % wants them to stop unconditially (I mean that Israel doesn't have to do anything for it.

on the other hand:

28 % wants them to go on with the suicide attacks

68,4 % is a big number, that is more then 2 out of 3. But this will never happen when someone stops retaliating, either Israel or the Palestines.

(if you don't believe my numbers because you cannot read the article properly, ask someone dutch who you trust to verify these numbers.)

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGiant Entry: relevant Function: adjective Definition: appropriate Synonyms: accordant, ad rem, admissible, allowable, applicable, applicatory, apposite, appurtenant, apt, becoming, cognate, compatible, concerning, conformant, conforming, congruent, congruous, consistent, consonant, correlated, correspondent, fit, fitting, germane, harmonious, important, material, pat, pertaining to, pertinent, pointful, proper, referring, related, relative, significant, suitable, suited, weighty Concept: suitability www.dictionary.com

You can give me as many definitions as your immature mind thinks is neccessary to prove whatever it is that you want to prove but that doesn't change the fact that:

a. you make arrogant, fanatic remarks about israel

ie.

quote:

If Israel really deliberately killed those people as a form of retaliation, why not use its full power and nuke entire cities? dont be stupid plz

quote:

Oh and about Israel being wiped out by the middle east....dont be pathetic...The Arab world is still psychologically suffering from embarassing defeats by the "tiny" Israel.

b. you show how your illiterate by not seeing the connection between your comments:

quote:

If Israel really deliberately killed those people as a form of retaliation, why not use its full power and nuke entire cities? dont be stupid plz

quote:

Oh and about Israel being wiped out by the middle east....dont be pathetic...The Arab world is still psychologically suffering from embarassing defeats by the "tiny" Israel.

and my comment:

quote:

Yep you're right; Israel is undefeatable. All tremble before the all mighty Israel.

ie.

quote:

yet another highly constructive contribution by you. why don't u just keep quiet if u've got nothing relevant to say?

c. you don't understand what relevant means even though the definition is staring you in the face

quote:

28 % wants them to go on with the suicide attacks

Its that 28% that i'm terrified of and would love to see guted!
I wish we could live in peace with the Arab world that surrounds us (and i'm sure i speak for every Israeli), but when you have people sending in homicide bombers, it only makes sense to go in and try to prevent it from happening again by eliminating the perportrators of this otrocity.

There was over 2 months of calm... very few casualties. This was due to the Israeli militaries counter terror operations in the PA controled areas.
These people who pray on the 28% who support these attacks hide out amounst innocent civilians, and under the Geneva convention(or another law-- not sure) its totally legal for the IDF to pursue these individuals even though they use their family and fellow palestinians as human shields.

Those of you who get mad at Israel, should think again and look at these terrorists who are the ones who ultimately get these innocent people killed by hiding amounst them knowing full well the danger they put these people in. Stop bitching about Israel killing innocents... start bicthing abuot the terrorists who are actually causing these deaths.
You guys claim to be deligent when you sort through the issues at hand... than why up until now haven't you seen whos really killing palestinians.
If you care abuot they're lives as much as you claim to... why dont you make the right decisions to stop it by starting a mission to condemn these terrorists who not only kill Israelis, but Palestinians alike.

Nalin
who are you...
what are you motives for being in these discussions?
do you have anything intellegent to contribute here?
are you just going to continue to pick at everyones comments responding with immature ignorant remarks?

Please limit your posts.
If you have something contructive to say, than say it... otherwise just shut the fuck up!

i have read every single one of your posts and none have anything half decent in them.
your making yourself look like an ass... its seems to me that your intentions here are simply to bash Israel with nothing backing it.

Use that g-d given brain of yours... right now i'm beginning to think that he forgot to place one in your head.

quote:

that is relative mr. illiterate; i'm not not the one making your arrogant comments, you are

quote:

Entry: relevant Function: adjective Definition: appropriate Synonyms: accordant, ad rem, admissible, allowable, applicable, applicatory, apposite, appurtenant, apt, becoming, cognate, compatible, concerning, conformant, conforming, congruent, congruous, consistent, consonant, correlated, correspondent, fit, fitting, germane, harmonious, important, material, pat, pertaining to, pertinent, pointful, proper, referring, related, relative, significant, suitable, suited, weighty Concept: suitability www.dictionary.com

I was actually using the word along the lines of "signficant" and "suitable" but nevermind. We can get back to this linguistic discussion as soon as you show me how you speak German (or Soanish or Hebrew or French) the way I speak your native language.

Secondly: Who are you to say what's a fanatic position? You aren't here to judge you can just bring up some own arguments, back em up with evidence and try to convince; mere condemnations of my arguments is not what I consider a constructive discussion.

Thirdly: My comments stated facts or at least the way I see the reality in the middle east. Your comment was a poor sarcastic comment with ZERO validity.

quote:

They said an Israeli tank fired a shell into a crowd of civilians, killing at least eight people and injuring scores more.

I'm wondering what a crowd of innocent people was doing at midnight surrounded with terrorists...It looks like they were trying to protect the terrorists and were not so innocent after all.

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Its that 28% that i'm terrified of and would love to see guted! I wish we could live in peace with the Arab world that surrounds us (and i'm sure i speak for every Israeli), but when you have people sending in homicide bombers, it only makes sense to go in and try to prevent it from happening again by eliminating the perportrators of this otrocity. There was over 2 months of calm... very few casualties. This was due to the Israeli militaries counter terror operations in the PA controled areas. These people who pray on the 28% who support these attacks hide out amounst innocent civilians, and under the Geneva convention(or another law-- not sure) its totally legal for the IDF to pursue these individuals even though they use their family and fellow palestinians as human shields. Those of you who get mad at Israel, should think again and look at these terrorists who are the ones who ultimately get these innocent people killed by hiding amounst them knowing full well the danger they put these people in. Stop bitching about Israel killing innocents... start bicthing abuot the terrorists who are actually causing these deaths. You guys claim to be deligent when you sort through the issues at hand... than why up until now haven't you seen whos really killing palestinians. If you care abuot they're lives as much as you claim to... why dont you make the right decisions to stop it by starting a mission to condemn these terrorists who not only kill Israelis, but Palestinians alike.

Why do you constantly try to validate your points by repeatedly reminding us that terrorists are evil??? WE KNOW THIS.... WE HATE THEM.. THEY ARE THE FILTH OF THE EARTH!!!

Instead of generalizing these terrorists as palestinians... why dont you try and also consider why these terroists are attacking...they just dont wake up and strap bombs on their bodies so they can blow a bus load of people up becuase they are inherently insane? Look at both sides of the situation.. place yourself in the shoes of an INNOCENT palestinian... and not a suicide bomber.. see yourself living in the concentration-like camp of the west bank...

I started out neutral.. and after researching this complex conflict on my own.. i took a step back and realized who has the overall power to end this conflict.... it is those with the POWER to do so.... and that is Sharon and Arafat.....

I personally think that Arafat is the lesser of the evil.. but it doesnt mean that he is any good either.

This conflict will never end until this cyclical "vengence" is removed from the ideologies of these two populations

Drug_tito wrote:

quote:

I'm wondering what a crowd of innocent people was doing at midnight surrounded with terrorists...It looks like they were trying to protect the terrorists and were not so innocent after all.

There is something to think about... awsome point drug_tito!

Cyrus_king wrote:

quote:

Why do you constantly try to validate your points by repeatedly reminding us that terrorists are evil??? WE KNOW THIS.... WE HATE THEM.. THEY ARE THE FILTH OF THE EARTH!!!

Good, so we should both agree that Israel, America and anyone else who vows to eliminate these animals are the real heroes of our time.
Anyone who protects them should be considered just as guilty!

quote:

Instead of generalizing these terrorists as Palestinians... why don�t you try and also consider why these terrorists are attacking...they just don�t wake up and strap bombs on their bodies so they can blow a bus load of people up because they are inherently insane?

No, they do it because they are misinformed about who�s really causing this grief for them. It seems that you are too. These people are brainwashed by the government who doesn't allow any foreign media outlets to broadcast in PA controlled areas. Thus letting the PA to make up whatever bullshit they want to paint whatever picture they want portrayed... in this case it�s to make Israel look like the reason for all the Palestinian people�s problems. You think they know that Arafat and his henchmen pocket so much of the money issued to make conditions more bearable for them? Hell no, they hear that Israel froze all they're assets and Israel wants them all dead. This gets them furious (as it would anyone) and makes it easier for radical Islamic groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbullah and others to recruit them.
They hear lies and propaganda from their own governments, how do you expect them not to hate Israel?

They learn in school that 1 Israeli + 1 gun = genocide of all Palestinians. We all know that this is not the case! Israel is not the evil aggressor here... in all of Israel�s existence it wasn't never the aggressor (check history for yourself). Anything this state ever did was for defensive purposes only. As soon as it has no reason to be on the defensive... there will be no more operations rooting out terrorists anymore! Get that through your head!

quote:

Look at both sides of the situation... place yourself in the shoes of an INNOCENT palestinian... and not a suicide bomber..

I have, and I know we've talked about this before. I lived in Israel all of the last academic year. I had dinners with Arab families who live inside Israel who do not support what these groups are doing. They agree that these groups and anyone who supports them (Arafat ect.) are the cause of the Middle East�s turmoil! I don�t mean to make my posts sound like I�m talking about all Palestinians... I'm trying to explain that it�s this handful of terrorist who claim to be doing what their doing for the sake of their cause, yet they only make things 10x worst. It leaves me with one reason to believe why they are really continuing this terror campaign; the elimination of Israel as stated in nearly all their mission statements.

quote:

see yourself living in the concentration-like camp of the west bank...

How can you possibly compare concentration camps of the holocaust to the refugee camps being controlled by the PA themselves?
This comparison is so pathetic that I will not even continue with a response to it.

quote:

I started out neutral..

Highly doubt that!

quote:

i took a step back and realized who has the overall power to end this conflict.... it is those with the POWER to do so.... and that is Sharon and Arafat.....

There is only so much one person can do... I feel that Sharon has done a lot more than Arafat when it comes to trying to end this conflict.
Show me what Arafat has done to end this sick game?
You show me that and I�ll pour onto the table all that Sharon has done!

quote:

I personally think that Arafat is the lesser of the evil..

I could have predicted that... g-d forbid you ever turn on Arafat and make him look worst than Sharon. I think that Sharon has been doing an amazing job with what he has to work with. Neighbours who want nothing more than the destruction of Israel... how do you talk peace with them?

quote:

This conflict will never end until this cyclical "vengence" is removed from the ideologies of these two populations

Speak for you own population... Israel doesn�t have an ideology of "vengeance"! We have an ideology of protection, of defence, of life and anything it takes to stay alive and breathing. Who would have thought that would be considered crimes against humanity by some?

Personally I don't think it will ever end There are simply too many extremists on both sides. Even if Israel gave Palestine a state I think there are too many extremists who are bent on the destruction of Israel to stop attacks. In the same respect Israel will always respond militarily (not that I would fault them for doing so) and there will likely be numerous civilian casualties as a result of collateral damage. There is simply too much distrust on both sides. THe only viable solution that I see would be UN peacekeeping forces to patrol the west bank and gaza. That way any reprisal attacks by the UN against terrorists would be viewed with better regard than if Israel were to carry them out.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You say that Israel doesnt take revenge.....Well.... last night they bombed a crowd of palestinians watching a fire being doused......This "retaliation" is what fuels this hatred on both sides... but a government taking a vengful response is more sickening than a crazy suicide bomber going insane. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2824363.stm

Thats horrible, I read the article and it just disgusts me. But what disgusts me more is this.
"The raid in Jabaliya was carried out well after midnight when the only people roaming the streets are Palestinian killers"
Mark Sofer,
Israeli official
To Mark I have one thing to say, What The Fuck are you talking about? Palastinian Killers? What a crock of shit. Two wrongs don't make a right, and what this guy said is pure bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Nalin who are you... what are you motives for being in these discussions? do you have anything intellegent to contribute here? are you just going to continue to pick at everyones comments responding with immature ignorant remarks? Please limit your posts. If you have something contructive to say, than say it... otherwise just shut the fuck up! i have read every single one of your posts and none have anything half decent in them. your making yourself look like an ass... its seems to me that your intentions here are simply to bash Israel with nothing backing it. Use that g-d given brain of yours... right now i'm beginning to think that he forgot to place one in your head.

Melech Mike
who the fuck are you...
what are your fucking motives for being in these discussions?
do you have anything intellegent to contribute here?
are you just going to continue to pick at everyones comments responding with immature ignorant remarks?

Please limit your posts with nothing racist in them.
If you have something contructive to say, than say it... otherwise just shut the fuck up and go back to your hole.

i have read every single one of your posts and none have anything half decent in them.
your making yourself look like an jackass... its seems to me that your intentions here are simply to bash the rest of the world with nothing backing it.

Use that small given brain of yours... Damn dude, you never learn. Heres a news flash Mike, you don't own these forums, and its because of people like you that the moderators are thinking of shutting this forum down.

quote:

Thats horrible, I read the article and it just disgusts me. But what disgusts me more is this. "The raid in Jabaliya was carried out well after midnight when the only people roaming the streets are Palestinian killers" Mark Sofer, Israeli official To Mark I have one thing to say, What The Fuck are you talking about? Palastinian Killers? What a crock of shit. Two wrongs don't make a right, and what this guy said is pure bullshit

It is horrible that it was said like that... can you attach the source where you read that to your post please!

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