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Is it really about "occupation"??

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Revisiting the Six-Day War written by Joseph Farah � 2003 WorldNetDaily.com Occupation, occupation, occupation. If you listen to Arabs, that's the cause of the conflict with Israel � occupation. They blame all their ills � from refugees living in squalor for the last 50 years to Yasser Arafat's bad breath � on the so-called Israeli "occupation" of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The Arabs say the Israelis grabbed this real estate in a war of aggression in 1967. In fact, Israel did not start that war. Israel did not want that war. Israel merely defended itself � very, very effectively � from coordinated attacks by Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Arafat's terrorists. This is not opinion. This is fact. A friend of mine, Sol Jacobs, did something very simple � something very obvious � to document this fact, which seems to elude so many today. He went back and looked at what newspapers were reporting about the crisis before June 5, 1967 � before there was any alleged "Israeli occupation." Here's what he found on his month-long timeline leading up to the Six-Day War: On May 7, the New York Times reported Syria had shelled the Israeli village of Ein Gev. On May 17, the New York Times reported that the Palestine Liberation Organization, headed by Arafat, pledged to "keep sending commandos" into Israel. On May 19, the Los Angeles Times reported Egypt stood accused of using poison gas in Yemen. On May 19, the New York Times reported Egypt had deployed its forces along the Israeli border. On May 20, the New York Times reported Egypt forced U.N. peacekeeping troops to leave the Sinai Desert in anticipation of its attack on Israel. On May 21, the New York Times reported Egyptian soldiers were massing in the Sinai. On May 22, the New York Times reported that the PLO would be stepping up its attacks in Israel, that Cairo was calling up 10,000 reserves and that Iraq would be sending aid to battle Israel. On May 23, every newspaper in the world reported that Egypt took the provocative action of closing the Gulf of Aqaba to Israel. On May 24, every newspaper in the world reported that the U.S. declared Egypt's military blockade of the gulf "illegal." On May 25, the New York Times reported that Jordan would admit Saudi and Iraqi forces into its country to do battle with Israel. On May 27, every newspaper in the world reported Egypt's fiery threats to destroy Israel. On May 29, the New York Times reported the Egyptian buildup of military forces in the Sinai was continuing. On May 29, the Washington Post reported that despite all of this provocation, Israel was still reluctant to have a showdown with its enemies. On May 29, the New York Times reported new Syrian attacks on Israel. On June 3, the New York Times reported that Britain declared the Egyptian blockade could lead to war. It also reported that four Syrian commandos were intercepted in Israel. On June 5, 1967, the Six-Day War began. Israel rolled up all of its enemies faster than anyone would have believed. It took control of East Jerusalem from Jordan. It took control of Judea and Samaria on the west bank of the Jordan River from Jordan. It took control of the Golan Heights from Syria. And it took control of the Gaza Strip and Sinai Desert from Egypt. You can read these news reports for yourself thanks to the work of Sol Jacobs. Clearly, the so-called "occupation" of these territories came about as a result of Arab war-making on Israel. Israel merely defended itself well. Israel also proved it was willing to give these territories back to neighbors who would live in peace with the Jewish state, as demonstrated with the return of the Sinai to Egypt. All of this raises a few questions: If Israel is occupying those territories today, who was occupying them until 1967? If the West Bank and Gaza belong to "Palestinians," why were they under the control of Jordan and Egypt until June 5, 1967? If Arab "Palestinians" just want their own state, why didn't they ask for it before 1967? And, lastly, why is it, according to many of these articles written in 1967, that when the Arabs talked about "occupied territories" then, they meant all of Israel?

This article is a real eye-opener.
I'd like for anyone who says Israel has "illegally occupied" the disputed territories to answer the questions at the end of Mr. Farahs article.

Re: Is it really about "occupation"??

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Originally posted by melech_mike This article is a real eye-opener. I'd like for anyone who says Israel has "illegally occupied" the disputed territories to answer the questions at the end of Mr. Farahs article.

This is utter biast bullshit

Selectively choosing speific news headlines from different sources to back up your point can be easily done by anyone.... including my 10 year old cousin!

My eyes have failed to

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This is utter biast bullshit Selectively choosing speific news headlines from different sources to back up your point can be easily done by anyone.... including my 10 year old cousin!

Are you joking??
these headlines speak volumes of what happend in the months leading up to the six-day war. are you trying to tell me that the picture painted by those headlines is a distorted one?
Please show me otherwise. i know very well what happend in '67, and these headlines do nothing more than paint an accurate picture.

i'd love to see something that would make me think otherwise... what happend in '67 was well documented and if you dont like those headlines i'll personally pull out 100 more from sources you may consider "un-biased".

Re: Re: Is it really about "occupation"??

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Originally posted by Cyrus King This is utter biast bullshit Selectively choosing speific news headlines from different sources to back up your point can be easily done by anyone.... including my 10 year old cousin! My eyes have failed to

Cyrus if you dispute Melech's point of view with articles and sources proving the opposite I might be more inclined to agree with you. But simply saying that Melech's arguments are biased and leaving it at that doesn't really accomplish much. From my studies of the Middle East (which was a while ago) The buildup and road to war with Israel was very much so initiated by the Arab states. It's very obvious what was going to happen when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq began mobilizing and massing their troops along the border with Israel.

ok i am egyptian and seeing this bullshit post makes me mad..i just wish u could see what the israeli troops did to an elementry school where they slottered thousands of little innocent kids..make me sick...and you wouldnt know it unless u r egyptian ..i am glad we kicked israel out of our lands...i dont want to talk no more or ill start cussing..and all ur sources are us papers..and the us is israel's biggest ally...i will never forgive israel never

Siiiighhhh ... since everybody is babbling and NOBODY is posting any kind of source or proof to back up what they're saying, I'll fill in the void and provide evidence CONTRADICTIVE to my argument:

Was the 1967 war defenisve?
"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68

There we go, a high level source WITHIN the Israeli government saying that Egypt never really wanted war ... of course since I'm American, I must have made it up or gotten it through biased news sources . Now I will proceed to argue against my counter-counter claim. Yes it is a very credible source but keep in mind that hindsight is 20/20 vision. He may have thought that Egypt didn't want a war but there was a significant amount of evidence that argued the opposite point. Not only was Egypt mobilizing and sending troops into the Sinai but Syria and Iraq were as well. As a matter of fact, Syria was provided false intelligence by the Soviets that the Israelis were massing troops near the border which prompted Syrian mobilization. This in combination with the fact that Sryia and Egypt recentely signed a mutual self defense treaty and general anti-Israeli sentiment in the region accelerated Israeli paranoia and drove them to preempt what appeared to be an imminent Arab invasion. My belief is that this quote was taken out of context and failed to fully describe the atmosphere at the time. Here is a very introspective, philosophical and seemingly unbiased account of the causes for the war:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~rtanter/1967.html

I'll simply post the thesis since the article is long:

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The 1967 Arab-Israeli war was one that arose out of miscalculated escalation; none of the relevant actors planned for the war nor wanted it to occur. The root causes of this war lie in threat perception and its relation to the relevant actors� value systems. This note will first analyze the domain bearings of the belligerents to display their perceptual environment, and then utilize this information to consider the perceptions, misunderstandings, and cognitive processes that facilitated the 1967 war against the wishes of the parties involved.

Since it places blame on NEITHER side, I think that it is probably closer to the truth than any other article you'll read. Additionally it looks like it was written by a muslim if you look at the authors name. As for my personal beliefs, I think that blame for the war largely resides on Egypt and Syria's shoulders. Perhaps they never intended for war to break out but they failed to account for the Israeli breaking point, especially for the economic cost to Israel in order to mobilize civilians in response to apparent Arab aggression.

You may all critisize Melech for posting biased sources, and I'll agree a bunch of them are most certainly biased, but at least he's one of the few people to actually POST sources to back up his arguments ...

Tranceaholic wrote:

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ok i am egyptian and seeing this bullshit post makes me mad..

I am Israeli and reading some of your accusations gets me furious!

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..i just wish u could see what the israeli troops did to an elementry school where they slottered thousands of little innocent kids..

WHAT???? Please tell me Where and when!!!
This better not be some false accusations your pushing here!

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..i am glad we kicked israel out of our lands...

From what i remember, Moses came to Pharo and told him that the g-d of the hebrews told him to come and take them out of Egypt... with Moses guiding them, they simply walked out. Than many many years later in 1967 they attacked Israel, we won - got the Sinai, and gave it back when Egypt signed a peace agreement.
I dont ever remember Egypt kicking 'israel' out!!! Please explain what information you have that the world has somehow forgot to document!

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i will never forgive israel never

For what again???
Not being your slaves in the time of Moses or for kicking your ass and whiping out your whole airforce before one plane ever left the ground in 1967?
Dont hate on us... you started and we finished! If anything we should be mad at you, but we put our anger and resentment aside in hopes of peace (ie. peace agreement - land for peace).

Your post was pointless. It didn't prove anything, nor did it show an opposing view to the article being discussed.

You have yet to answer the questions posed at the end of the article. If you get too worked up talking about this (like i once did), perhaps you should take a break from this forum! Otherwise, please post comments and opinions with something to back it up.

Occrider:
Thanks for the article. offers a nice perspective of what happend in a light i've never heard of before. It can very well be just a conspiracy theory dont you think? Its very pliable though!

A question i pose is why would Egypt move their forces to the israeli border? did they not know the tensions in the air at that time? What purpose did mobilizing their troops there have besides casting a threat to the new born Israel?

--------------

I ask anyone to offer me answers to the questions of Mr. Farahs article!

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Occrider: Thanks for the article. offers a nice perspective of what happend in a light i've never heard of before. It can very well be just a conspiracy theory dont you think? Its very pliable though! A question i pose is why would Egypt move their forces to the israeli border? did they not know the tensions in the air at that time? What purpose did mobilizing their troops there have besides casting a threat to the new born Israel? -------------- I ask anyone to offer me answers to the questions of Mr. Farahs article!

Think of Nasser as a modern day combination of Bush and Clinton. He had the political suave to be very popular in the Middle East and he had a certain sense of brashness around him like bush to do stupid things. To be a leader in the middle east takes a certain amount of finesse and delicateness. I have no doubts that if Bush were PM of Israel or Egypt at that time the world would be engulfed in war. Anyway Nasser desired to be that single, popular leader to unite the Arab states much like Saddam wishes to be today. At the time Egypt was suffering in terms of arab popularity and as such it makes perfect sense for nasser to bring egypt to the arab limelight by voicing extreme anti-Israeli sentiment and taking a strong stance against Israel. If you read any history books about that time period, nasser was a political animal that wanted to spread his popularity throughout the region. It makes a very convincing argument that he publicly spoke very strong words against Israel in demanding UN peacekeeping forces to withdraw, and moving egyptian troops in, yet he only moved 2 divisions into the Sinai which would not pose a significant threat to Israel, or so he thought. Unfortunately he is most like bush in the respect that he failed to account for the situation that israel was in. After the war of 1948 Israel was paranoid about its survival, saw the buildup along its borders, and viewed the Arab blockade as a sign of things that were going to happen. As such the situation escalated.

You may think of it as a conspiracy theory or bias but I have read similar accounts out of 3 full fledged history books that I read about the conflict. 1 was American, 1 British, and 1 British/French (odd right?).

On a sidenote .... I think that only the swiss should be allowed to write history books. THat would eliminate a lot of stupidity in this world.

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You may think of it as a conspiracy theory or bias but I have read similar accounts out of 3 full fledged history books that I read about the conflict. 1 was American, 1 British, and 1 British/French (odd right?).

By no means did i ever think it was bias. Like i said, its a very pliable theory! I know of Israels paranoia in the time of this war. Surrounded by a bunch of enimies who were also serious bullies would scare anyone!

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On a sidenote .... I think that only the swiss should be allowed to write history books. THat would eliminate a lot of stupidity in this world.

Whys that? You dont think the swiss are prone to the same stupidities of other nations and peoples?

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Originally posted by melech_mike Whys that? You dont think the swiss are prone to the same stupidities of other nations and peoples?

Well I think that the swiss, out of ANYBODY in this world we be the most proficient at giving a very accurate, historical account of our happenings without a lot of bias or political motivations. Yes they are not completely innocent which can be seen from their ww2 transgressions but can you think of any other society that is more neutral? It's disappointing that they joined the EU ... they should remain the quintessential neutralisist (is that even a word?)

Didn't know that the Swiss had such a clean political slaight.
I must admit i'm a little ignorant when it comes to the Swiss.
Dont know much more than their cheese, ski slopes, and Volvos(i think)!
It is disappointing that they joined the EU. What do you think the chances are of them steping out in the future?

And no, neutralisist is not a real word... but it very well could be... i understood what you meant!

there are lots of well done documentaries about the 67 war.

From what I remember....

Syria and Egypt wanted to send Israel into the sea, but Egypt was scared that Israeli anti-air etc would massacre them, so they wanted to build a 10km buffer zone, and basically since the arabs can't work together egypt backstabbed syria not sending into israel enough troops and Israel was able to massacre them, with the help of G-d obviously...

That is what I remember... I'll try to read up on it from non-israeli sources to appease (Why do I bother appeasing to haters?) to your claims that israeli sources are bias (I claim you guys are bias to anything from israel, thinking it is full of lies!)

Shlomo

p.s. the quote from rabin is interesting... I will look into it!
I live 5 minutes away from the Israeli' Gov't buildings.. let me see IF i can pull anything out...

quote:

Originally posted by melech_mike Tranceaholic wrote: I am Israeli and reading some of your accusations gets me furious! WHAT???? Please tell me Where and when!!! This better not be some false accusations your pushing here! From what i remember, Moses came to Pharo and told him that the g-d of the hebrews told him to come and take them out of Egypt... with Moses guiding them, they simply walked out. Than many many years later in 1967 they attacked Israel, we won - got the Sinai, and gave it back when Egypt signed a peace agreement. I dont ever remember Egypt kicking 'israel' out!!! Please explain what information you have that the world has somehow forgot to document! For what again??? Not being your slaves in the time of Moses or for kicking your ass and whiping out your whole airforce before one plane ever left the ground in 1967? Dont hate on us... you started and we finished! If anything we should be mad at you, but we put our anger and resentment aside in hopes of peace (ie. peace agreement - land for peace). Your post was pointless. It didn't prove anything, nor did it show an opposing view to the article being discussed. You have yet to answer the questions posed at the end of the article. If you get too worked up talking about this (like i once did), perhaps you should take a break from this forum! Otherwise, please post comments and opinions with something to back it up. Occrider: Thanks for the article. offers a nice perspective of what happend in a light i've never heard of before. It can very well be just a conspiracy theory dont you think? Its very pliable though! A question i pose is why would Egypt move their forces to the israeli border? did they not know the tensions in the air at that time? What purpose did mobilizing their troops there have besides casting a threat to the new born Israel? -------------- I ask anyone to offer me answers to the questions of Mr. Farahs article!

well i wasnt gonna relpy to this thread anymore but my accusation isnt false..and the school's name is bahr el baar..attacked by israeli plane i have a video footage that would make you cry so shut it about false accusations..and about kicking israel out..well lets look at it this way..you dont have our lands or the sinai you wanted do you so that means u got out didnt you..and u got us good in 67 with a sneak attack but we got u back in 73 with a more sneaky attack..that showed we mean buisness and thats why we agreed to peace..i would lke not to hate israel but seeing as its the major pain in alot of peoples ass..and seeing what it did to my country before..cant say makes me love it too much...what the hell did u want from egypt anyway?

oh and by the way i am not gonna post in this thread anymore before all hell breaks loose anymore..and i can get u lots of bullshit sources like u do but i have a life..must be tough being from the most hated country in the world..best of luck to u try to prove how legit and good israel is..looke like u r failing misrably though..agin dont even bother replying dude..we all know the deal

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic well i wasnt gonna relpy to this thread anymore but my accusation isnt false..and the school's name is bahr el baar..attacked by israeli plane i have a video footage that would make you cry so shut it about false accusations..

So you have videotapes of THOUSANDS of little kids getting slaughtered? Why don't you give it to cnn or al jazeera cuz that's the first of I've heard of this ...

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and about kicking israel out..well lets look at it this way..you dont have our lands or the sinai you wanted do you so that means u got out didnt you..and u got us good in 67 with a sneak attack but we got u back in 73 with a more sneaky attack..that showed we mean buisness and thats why we agreed to peace

That doesn't make sense ... Egypt agreed to peace because they successfully accomplished a super sneakier attack?

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..i would lke not to hate israel but seeing as its the major pain in alot of peoples ass..and seeing what it did to my country before..cant say makes me love it too much...what the hell did u want from egypt anyway? ...must be tough being from the most hated country in the world..best of luck to u try to prove how legit and good israel is

How informative ... thanks for your input.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic ok i am egyptian and seeing this bullshit post makes me mad..i just wish u could see what the israeli troops did to an elementry school where they slottered thousands of little innocent kids..make me sick...and you wouldnt know it unless u r egyptian ..i am glad we kicked israel out of our lands...i dont want to talk no more or ill start cussing..and all ur sources are us papers..and the us is israel's biggest ally...i will never forgive israel never

seeing a statement like this pisses me off... and I am not the type person to get angry easily. its people like you who give your fellow arabs a bad name/reputation. stop being so damn hatefull (if thats even a word, but you get the point)... learn to forgive and there wouldnt be such violence in this world.

just out of curiousity, when did this happen?

Just a side note, Switzerland did not join the EU, and Volvos are produced in Sweden.

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oh and by the way i am not gonna post in this thread anymore before all hell breaks loose anymore..and i can get u lots of bullshit sources like u do but i have a life..must be tough being from the most hated country in the world..best of luck to u try to prove how legit and good israel is..looke like u r failing misrably though..agin dont even bother replying dude..we all know the deal

If you post something, you should back it up, not just put up an accusation and let us do the research.

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Just a side note, Switzerland did not join the EU, and Volvos are produced in Sweden.

Ha, knew it started with an 'S'.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Just a side note, Switzerland did not join the EU, and Volvos are produced in Sweden.

Hmmm I could have sworn they had one of their country wide votes for something ... was it for participation in the UN? Also didn't they vote to get rid of their army? Yea I suppose I could look it up but you probably know already and I'm lazy

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Hmmm I could have sworn they had one of their country wide votes for something ... was it for participation in the UN? Also didn't they vote to get rid of their army? Yea I suppose I could look it up but you probably know already and I'm lazy

NATO me thinks

Aside from having several bilateral agreements with EU, Switzerland is only a member of the UN. And it's not even a fully pledget member, it just has an observational status. It is not a member of Nato or EU, since people rejected those proposals on a referendum. Even the referendum to have them become a full member of the UN failed. They still have their army. Aside from that, they have the Swiss guard that is protecting the pope.

Cyrus, Demon, Az, trancaholic and the rest of you who blame Israel for occupation, i have yet to see any answers to the questions posed by the author of the article. Please answer! try to justify your accusations please... you havent presented a convincing case as of yet.

quote:

All of this raises a few questions: If Israel is occupying those territories today, who was occupying them until 1967? If the West Bank and Gaza belong to "Palestinians," why were they under the control of Jordan and Egypt until June 5, 1967? If Arab "Palestinians" just want their own state, why didn't they ask for it before 1967?

I asked my grand parents and my grandfather whos some crazy history guy about the middle east as a whole and if there has ever been peace there. I was basicaly told, When u have that many people in that small space attempting to live together but at the same time but seperate along lines of religion/mentality u will always have conflict. I was also told that the conflicts are generaly not as bad as reported to the American media cuz hype = $$ and the mindle1ss never ask questions but later vote for war based on misinformation. SO I CANT REALLY SAY MUCH CUZ ALL I KNOW IS WHAT THE BIASED US MEDIA TELLS ME.

There are always people saying "in 19** X amount of inocent nuns/kids/pupys were raped and killed by "X"country and this makes them evil.

WELL guess what, this mentality makes every country/ person living within that counrty evil devils. EVEN SWEEDEN. Everyone has a history. SO cut the cr*p. Ultimetly were all just trying to keep the peace. EVEN BUSH!!! so please no more tit for tat guyz.

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Originally posted by melech_mike Cyrus, Demon, Az, trancaholic and the rest of you who blame Israel for occupation, i have yet to see any answers to the questions posed by the author of the article. Please answer! try to justify your accusations please... you havent presented a convincing case as of yet.

That's a very astute question. You can't really blow that off as being biased bs since it's a question rather than a statement. If there is evidence of a Palestinian spirit of nationalism pre-Israel I would like to hear of this!

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic well i wasnt gonna relpy to this thread anymore but my accusation isnt false..and the school's name is bahr el baar..attacked by israeli plane i have a video footage that would make you cry so shut it about false accusations..and about kicking israel out..well lets look at it this way..you dont have our lands or the sinai you wanted do you so that means u got out didnt you..and u got us good in 67 with a sneak attack but we got u back in 73 with a more sneaky attack..that showed we mean buisness and thats why we agreed to peace..i would lke not to hate israel but seeing as its the major pain in alot of peoples ass..and seeing what it did to my country before..cant say makes me love it too much...what the hell did u want from egypt anyway?

everyone...

We can all agree, this is purely not truth at all. This is what is spewed into the mouths of most arabs in the middle east. They are told lies about the wars, and taught to hate israel. I am not trying to say anything about israel's cause.

BUT AS A CANADIAN, who wants everyone to live peacefully, can we all focus ourselves for a minute on the fact that these brainwashed people will never agree to true peace with Israel because they have some conception of israel that is totally villified!!!

Shlomo Eliyahu

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