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The Reality Of War
With all this rhetoric getting thrown backwards and forwards, it can be easy to forget what war is really about : wanton death and destruction. When you see the images released by the Pentagon of Laser-Guided Missiles plowing clinically into "military targets" with the precision and aesthetics of a computer game utterly detached from reality, please keep these images, taken from the first Gulf war in mind:
The True Cost of War
Then imagine these images repeated 100,000 times over in a country already decimated by regular bombings and incredible poverty. If anyone believes that the Iraqi people are going to be skipping up to their American "liberators" in Baghdad at the end of the war having had to experience these images first hand - charred, limbless friends and relatives left to die amongst the rubble of what were once their homes - you need a reality check. This is a small part of what war costs the average citizen, and doesn't even take into consideration the abhorrent conditions refugees will be forced to endure, nor the increased destruction of infrastructure and property that will make the lives of the Iraqi citizen even harder to bear.
You can form your own opinion on the war, but - regardless of your position - don't forget what, at base, it all comes down to and who suffers. These images demonstrate why the terrors of war should only ever instigated as a very last resort. 
EDIT: All the photos with commentary from the original author can be accessed at this address:
http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt_intro.html
NO WAR- NO WAY!!!!
I agree that war is war. No matter what your doing. I also totally agree on the gulf coverage issue. Did u know that reporters who strayed from the Army and got real stories and tried to air them were really given a hard time by the CIA! Im guessing the same thing happened in Afghanistan and will repeat in Iraq. While this helps the P.R. department allot it continues to cloud the judgment of the average person who doesn�t really care about what happens but still votes. Renegade, U stated that the area has "incredible poverty" I agree with this. However. Can it not be argued that the billions of oil $$$ that Sadam pockets for himself and spends on 25 palaces and large cruise boats should be in the hands of the people and therefore gives further justification the need for US liberation? The point here is that the US apparently "intends" to help the people by remodeling the government so the $$$ will find its way into the peoples hands. People have already argued that this will not happen for many reasons but the war in the area isnt over so no one can really tell. Also it takes a very long time to reform a country. This is a problem cuz many of the people who have an opinion would like to see a turn around in a few weeks and then flame the gov for apparently lying over immediate placement of money and political spotlight.
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| . Did u know that reporters who strayed from the Army and got real stories and tried to air them were really given a hard time by the CIA! Im guessing the same thing happened in Afghanistan and will repeat in Iraq. |
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| On the second day, the plan calls for launching another 300 to 400 cruise missiles. "There will not be a safe place in Baghdad," said one Pentagon official who has been briefed on the plan. "The sheer size of this has never been seen before, never been contemplated before," the official said. |
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| "We want them to quit. We want them not to fight," says Harlan Ullman, one of the authors of the Shock and Awe concept which relies on large numbers of precision guided weapons. "So that you have this simultaneous effect, rather like the nuclear weapons at Hiroshima, not taking days or weeks but in minutes," says Ullman. |
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| "You're sitting in Baghdad and all of a sudden you're the general and 30 of your division headquarters have been wiped out. You also take the city down. By that I mean you get rid of their power, water. In 2,3,4,5 days they are physically, emotionally and psychologically exhausted," Ullman tells Martin. |
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| Renegade, U stated that the area has "incredible poverty" I agree with this. However. Can it not be argued that the billions of oil $$$ that Sadam pockets for himself and spends on 25 palaces and large cruise boats should be in the hands of the people and therefore gives further justification the need for US liberation? The point here is that the US apparently "intends" to help the people by remodeling the government so the $$$ will find its way into the peoples hands. |
Yeah, these are the realities of war. This is what a dangerous government like Saddam's regime can do to people. What an evil man to do this to people. I am so glad and honored that I live in a country where we can put a stop to suffering like this. I thank god that we have the power to put a stop to evil killers. Thank you God for my country.
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| Originally posted by Renegade The old "it's all Saddam's fault" line just isn't true. |
Maybe i should post pics of 9.11...of innocent people going about their daily lives in a non war time situation that where attacked....save your pictures...those where soldiers in war times.
Renegade has considerably prroved you wrong on a multitude of times Tiesto14. He has backed up his arguments with sources and logical explanations... where you just idiotically reply with childish remarks from that empty space between your ears.
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Renegade has considerably prroved you wrong on a multitude of times Tiesto14. He has backed up his arguments with sources and logical explanations... where you just idiotically reply with childish remarks from that empty space between your ears. |
HERES WHAT I SAW U ******...THESE ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE IN NON WAR TIMES....I REPEAT NON NON NON NON NON WAR TIMES!!!!!
For those who jumped, the fall lasted 10 seconds. They struck the ground at just less than 150 miles per hour � not fast enough to cause unconsciousness while falling, but fast enough to ensure instant death on impact. People jumped from all four sides of the north tower. They jumped alone, in pairs and in groups.
SHOW ME ONE MILITARY OFFICIAL OR SOLDIER...JUST ONE..THESE ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE IN NON WAR TIMES
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| Originally posted by tiesto14 ok fine let me get some pics...let me show you what it looks like for busnies women and men to be attacked...in NON war times...let me show you what IIIIIIIIIIIIII saw with my OWN eyes in person...while you sat back on your fucking ass safe while i was running for my life...you shut the fuck up you scumbag...you know nothing...you dont know what its liek to be attacked...I DO.... |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King First off... everytime you try and validate your points.. it always comes back to you trying to get people to feel sorry for you becuase you witnessed 9/11. I know MANY people.... including a doctor who was probably closer to the buildings than any regular individual in the city who witnessed everything from the beginning to the end.. who sat there waiting to help people but no one would come becuase they were dead. Dont think you were the only one who was affected by 9/11... the whole world was.... but rememeber... the world experiences 9/11 in different forms every single day... yet we dont hear about it. And with me being attacked.... do you know what it feels like to live in fear for your life as bombs are being blown up outside your house.... do you know how it feels like to be in a war.... to know people who have been executed???? HAve you lived in the middeast during the Iran / IRaq war.... MILLIONS died then... and my family was affected.... so you shut the fuck up...and stop crying about 9/11. |
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| Originally posted by tiesto14 FUCK YOU AND YOUR FAMILY....ROT IN HELL |
hey tiesto, aren't you supposed to stay away from political forums?? wait maybe some of us should msg the moderators and get you banned from here again!
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King the world experiences 9/11 in different forms every single day... yet we dont hear about it. |
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| Originally posted by Renegade See here for the "myths" about Iraqi sanctions: http://www.nonviolence.org/vitw/pag...lity_print.html |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus examples? From the site: "Myth 2: Iraq possesses, and seeks to build, weapons of mass destruction. If unchecked, and without economic sanctions, Iraq could, and certainly would, threaten its neighbors." In all fairness no one can claim this is a myth (or a truth), it is simply an opinion. The fact that Iraq does possess weapons of mass destruction however is fairly well believed do to inconsistencies in those weapons which they claim to have been destroyed yet no one saw them destroy. |
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| HERES WHAT I SAW U ******...THESE ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE IN NON WAR TIMES....I REPEAT NON NON NON NON NON WAR TIMES!!!!! |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Is that the best you can do?...LOOOOOOOL You are so sad P.S THE MANWHO CONCOCTED THIS MASSACRE WAS TRAINED BY YOUR MILITARY.....BY YOUR SOLDIERS!! |
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| Originally posted by Dupz Why do you point out so boldly that it was during "non war" times?? The people who did this to your country have been fighting against every regime your country has thrown at them for the past 50 years. For them they were at war with you LONG ago.. all they did was bring war from their doorsteps to yours. Chill out Tiesto14.. Irrational reactions are the reason we see such a vicious cycle of hate and destruction. And please dont continually bring up the point of actually seeing these terrible events, because i'm sure 80% of the worlds people have seen much worse. stop feeling sorry for yourself. it's not going to help. |
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| did you lose friends that day?.....because i did. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King HAve you lived in the middeast during the Iran / IRaq war.... MILLIONS died then... |
Tiesto14, your attitude is pathetic.
I never once denied the horrors of 9/11. Why are you offended because I feel that civilian deaths in Iraq are just as tragic?
2,800 people died in the WTC disasters. At least 100,000 (most estimates are two - times that size) will die in Iraq. That's the equivelent of 36 WTC disasters. Just because they aren't American citizens it doesn't mean they are some sub-human peoples that we can blow up just to make you feel better.
And for the record the soldiers pictured there were retreating from Kuwait. They were running away from the American military, yet were bombarded with missiles despite the fact that they posed absolutely no threat. It's goes against rules dictating proper conduct in warfare:
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| When it was determined that the civilian economy and the military were sufficiently destroyed, the U.S. ground forces moved into Kuwait and Iraq attacking disoriented disorganized, fleeing Iraqi forces wherever they could be found, killing thousands more and destroying any equipment found. The slaughter continued after the cease fire. For example, on March 2, 1991, U.S. 24th Division Forces engaged in a four-hour assault against Iraqis just west of Basra. More than 750 vehicles were destroyed, thousands were killed without U.S. casualties. A U.S. commander said, "We really waxed them." It was called a "Turkey Shoot." |
It seems like tiesto is one of those gullable people that Bush managed to convince Saddam was responsible for 11.9. disaster. Just in case you didn't know, Saddam and Al Quaeda used to hate each other, and radical islamists were terrorizing Iraq as well.
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| Originally posted by Renegade Tiesto14, your attitude is pathetic. I never once denied the horrors of 9/11. Why are you offended because I feel that civilian deaths in Iraq are just as tragic? 2,800 people died in the WTC disasters. At least 100,000 (most estimates are two - times that size) will die in Iraq. That's the equivelent of 36 WTC disasters. Just because they aren't American citizens it doesn't mean they are some sub-human peoples that we can blow up just to make you feel better. And for the record the soldiers pictured there were retreating from Kuwait. They were running away from the American military, yet were bombarded with missiles despite the fact that they posed absolutely no threat. It's goes against rules dictating proper conduct in warfare: http://www.deoxy.org/wc/warcrim2.htm (I suggest you all read that - Cheney and Bush Snr both found guilty of war crimes. Wonder if they plan to stand trial some day?) |
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| Originally posted by Renegade And for the record the soldiers pictured there were retreating from Kuwait. They were running away from the American military, yet were bombarded with missiles despite the fact that they posed absolutely no threat. It's goes against rules dictating proper conduct in warfare: |
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