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A topic of discussion for genuine(?) trance fans
As I lie here in bed, struck down by glandular fever ( that's the last time I kiss a girl without seeing a recent blood test result :P ), I begin to ask myself questions about the trance scene/culture here in sydney.
Is it a strong scene/culture? We all talk about the glory days of 99 trance. How some of the events experienced during these times were the best events we have ever been to. But what was the club scene like during these glory days? I'll admit that those days for me were mostly spent looking into an empty bottle 
, so my memory is a little hazy.
Today we have events like Two Tribes that host some of the biggest trance DJ's in the world. I am told that when they had to shut the God's Kitchen room there were probably 3000-3500 people in there. That might seem like alot but is it? Gas & Altitude then hosted Armin Van Buuren the following week. Again I'm told that there were less than 1000 people there. This seems odd to me. One of, if not, the best trance DJ in the world today and less than 1000 people go to see it. Why?
Please don't think that I dislike trance. I love trance and have done so since 97. I am just wondering is my, and others, support genuine? I'll go to some events, but not all the time. Are people happy just to listen to trance on a CD or do they actually want to go to a club to hear it played live?
Look at what the people behind Altitude tried to do. They saw the apparent support for trance at the 2001 Two Tribes and thought if people like this so much, maybe we should give it to them once a month? For me this was a dream come true. Sure, the production could have been a bit better, but they were supplying the tunes that I could only hear either from buying vinyl or listening to live sets downloaded from the internet. Alot of people agreed with me. The first two nights were big successes. Then the support kind of fell away. Why?
I know europe has a much larger population that Australia and maybe it is in proportion, but when I look at footage of Sensation White, which is held in Amsterdam every year, and see 40000+ people going off, I think why isn't there that kind of support here? I don't mean 40000+ but somewhere like 5000+ would be nice to see. With Sydney's population approx. 4 million is that too big an ask? (That's a serious question, not rhetorical)
What are your views/opinions?
P.S. If you don't like trance that's fine, but please don't post inane replies like "trance sucks", "trance is gay", "as if you'd listen to trance" etc. I'm trying to be semi-serious about this issue. I'd like to see the trance scene/culture really take of here in sydney, but I'm wondering is the support really there for it to do? Thanks.
(I posted the same thread on inthemix earlier so I'm sorry if some of you have already read and replied. In hindsight I should have posted it here first.)
I think it's just lack of knowledge or experience which is why support is lacking.
I don't thin many people in australia seriously like trance. Either cos they haven't had a real chance to embrace it, or they don't like it which is fine if they've properly given it a chance and then made their opinion.
Sure we all support it, but I think there really isn't a large base of support in aus. Sure there were excess 4000 people at TT but about 70% of them go because it's a huge event, they don't necessarily like dance/techno/whatever you want to call it music. But they go for dancing. The other 30% go to see acts they want to see. A large proportion of the people at TT either didn't know who was playing, or didn't care, or were there because their friends were, or to pick up, or just to go out to an event. I know heaps of people which don't have cds of dance music but like it at a club, but that's where they draw the line. They want beat and melody, not really for listening though. The same probably applies for Love Parade and huge events in europe. 50% of the people there are probably going just cos it's an event. I know chicks and other guys I've met who say "Oh man I would LOOVVEE to go to the Love Parade that would be fuckin sick, that would be awesome. I swear I'm gonna go when I've go money" and you ask them to name 1 dj and they can't. It's a big event, people go for the crowd/vibe/sake of it.
I'm not trying to sound elitist and all "they don't know what they're doing, they're just ignorant fools". I might go to a live band because some of my friends are going, doesn't mean I like the performers or the music particularly, don't hate it either, but I go because I've been invited etc. Or it's fun doing something different, or something where everyone is enjoying themselves, oooh cool lights and looud music etc.
With 5am starting up at room hopefully there will become a lot of regulars coming for trance, but there will always be people coming because they go to other nights at the club, or their friends are going, or it's "Cool".
It doesn't matter what they decide or why they're coming, everyone has their own opinions. Australia hasn't been brought up with a strong trance culture in any way, uk already has a strong following, and where we have hard nrg here and retro and rnb that's what most people grow up with as the club scene and they get used to it/like it.
When I was younger I listened to the radio, fox, triple j (ahem and Kiss 90Fm) and I liked all the pop crap. I didn't mind, I really liked it because that's all I knew. And if I continued listening to it now I'd probably argue it's good.
Either way these sort of discussions can go on forever. But I honestly don't think there's a strong Trance following in Aus.
Trance, Sex, Drugs, Food, Holidays.
What do all these have in common?
After the first time, or the first few times, they arnt as good as it was at the start. Which why genres progress, you try different positions, you take new drugs, you eat strange food, and holiday at different places.
Although one thing I can never understand is people who have no particular music taste. I don't mind people which *genuinely* appreciate all forms of music, and I feel I can enjoy most types of music so long as it's well formed.
But I get so utterly perplexed at people who seriously have no particular music taste. You can probe them for hours on what songs they like and what styles and they have no answer. You can ask, do you listen to relax? when you're angry? when you're sad? when you're happy? And they just say "Meh. Not really."
I can understand people not liking movies, or books. Fair enough. But music has so many emotional undertones which really affect me. I love getting lost in my anger with a good song, I find it's great carthasis being able to pour all your aggression through a raging song.
Or depressed, when I had issues with my best friend breaking me and my girlfriend up with out me knowing it was him who instigated it. And he did so he could go out for her for 2 months secretly without me knowing (started as soon as he broke us up by saying I was cheating on her, she told me some bs reason why she couldn't see me). He has never admitted it. And the whole time he was mentally and physically abusing her. She was a wreck by the end of it. (ed- I took her back in the end cos it was his shit which fucked us up, we've been strong for the last 5 months). But during that time when I found out everything, music was a saviour. Tracks like tears from the moon (hybrid mix), although depressing, it makes you feel good in a strange way.
And when you're in a good mood, well need I say more (G&D pres. motorcycle - as the rush comes on, freefall - skydive 
)
But I just can't fathom how people have nnnoo appreciation of music. Not because I love my ego-trip of being "informed" and "enlightened" but simply because I pity them, in that I would never want to be in their situation.
Oh well, strange tangent. But I just can't understand it. They seem to be devoid of individuality, or incapable of forming their own opinions which go against the norm (radio music).
Ah well.
[/end rant]
I have written a number of times about how the events we have here are so much smaller than those in Europe. Melbourne Two Tribes is probably the closest thing we get in terms of size and style.
Activity on this message forum has increased immensely since last year, and I think that could be a sign that the Australian trance community has grown. Last year our Two Tribes threads were mostly only single pages. When I wrote about Two Tribes 2002 Sydney (http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=31224), there were only 3 replies and 70 views. Helen's "TwoTribes Sydney - AMAZING!!!!" thread (http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=36609) got 22 replies. There wasn't much of a community back then. Compare that to this year's buld-up and response to Two Tribes 2003.
I think the trance community will continue to grow, probably becoming increasingly mainstream as trance and electronic dance music gets more airplay on TV and radio, including advertisements. Whether that's good or not is another matter.
I agree that Sensation White looks amazing, I posted a link to the video a while ago. It may even still be up. I don't think we currently have enough people to fill a gigantic room like that! I wouldn't know of any venues that are that large either!
I think most of the population have not had (or taken) the opportunity to really listen to trance and gain an understanding of it. I think as trance and electronic dance music becomes more mainstream, there will be an increase in the number of people who develop a good taste of the music. As an example, many of Chicane's tracks reached high in the charts and became quite popular, (e.g. Saltwater, Don't give up), and I'm sure that many people would not have even heard of Chicane otherwise. Many people would have bought his 'Behind the sun' album, maybe even 'Far from the maddening crowds' too. From this, many may search further for similar sounds, discover music releases like the Gatecrasher and GlobalUnderground series, and possibly eventually become fully-fledged electronic dance music enthusiasts like us.
Other people may take the dance music event path - people may like to try different things when they go out, so they may try out dance music clubs or events. They find that they really enjoy it, and as they gain an appreciation of the music that they dance to, they want to have the music for themselves so they can play it in their home or car. Enthusiasm for and understanding of the music can grow further.
Exposure plays a significant part in the take-up of anything. That is the whole reason for the existence of advertising and marketing. Word-of-mouth promotion can only go so far.
those are interesting and worthy thoughts you've brewed up there, considering the state you're in. any kind of illness, simple cold included, ceases my mind to function, so definite kudos to u!
trance, i found, has always had quite the adequate dosage here down under. at least every 2 months[probably less], a decent trance act will be around. pvd comes yearly, armin's been here twice in the last 6 months, joof very regularly, dumonde last month, oakie next month, etc. etc. which has puzzled me as to why it hasnt become as popular as well, maybe it should be. if you think about it, a lot of the main events, considered "raves" to mainstream, are headlined by trance acts, and constantly, they'll be jam packed, but yet i'll safely bet at least 40% of the crowd will not have heard who the DJs are, let alone, know what sub genre of electronica they're to play. so why do these events still grab the numbers? its all in the environment, the atmosphere. maybe because its "cool", its a "rave", so ur cool. u take pills, so ur "cool", or well, maybe take pills to loosen up, for some, their way of enjoying the euphoria, disregard what kind of music it is, as long as it involves a heavy bassline. or maybe its that conception of friendliness which proves appealing, who ever you are, what race you're from, it all proves insignificant, because we're all there for one reason, to have a good time, and enjoy the music.
that is until u realise ppl r smiling coz their high of their nut, n nobody really knows squat about the music.... they're all there for the vibe, hence why at the more intimate gigs, numbers are substantially less, but at least ppl are there for the real deal, which automatically makes it a better night, but yet leaves the genre of music underground.
proof? just last weekend, i was at a club, and this chick asked me whether i went to two tribes recently. i sed nope unfortunately, and she said she went. immediately my eyes lit up, and i asked her how AVB was. first reaction, "huh? who?", i repeated "armin van buuren. surely u know him? ur into trance right?", she replied "err. cant remember". i disregarded it and asked her who she saw. she said "dave seaman". and so i asked how he was, she said "it was too slow".... by then, i had by back turned towards her, n she proceeded to tell me how tired she gets when she doesnt 'drop'. *rolls eyes*
anyhow, i've digressed. other point i wanted to add was that you have to take into account, trance is mainstream in the european regions. trance is what britney, kylie, eminem are to us. they're music video shows are all filled with tiesto n pvd clips, while we get nikki webster. so i don't think the health of trance is really comparable to europe. to be honest tho, i think we're doing well down here. we get our trance on wax n cds, tho at times belated, we still get our distribution/exposue. its not our fault ppl prefer dj sammy or novaspace however.
I feel for u man. Its a good point u raise, but once again i feel its the stigma attached to electronic music as a whole that detracts the punters from supporting genres such as trance. A lot of joe blows who ask u what do music u listen to and when u say trance automatically u considered as pill popping gurner, which in fact is ridiculousy further from the truth.
And i think its such stigmas that are stopping trance music as whole from being put out their to the masses. U prolly all think im full of shit but u ask people what they think when u said u went to Two Tribes on the weekend 99.9% of the people will tell u to do drugs, and thats a shame acause as long as this stigma stays attached electronic music in general will suffer imo.
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| P.S. If you don't like trance that's fine, but please don't post inane replies like "trance sucks", "trance is gay", "as if you'd listen to trance" etc. |
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| Oh wells.. thats just my Aust. 0.5cents |
i will give my 2 cents tho.
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| Originally posted by Euphorica@AUS A lot of joe blows who ask u what do music u listen to and when u say trance automatically u considered as pill popping gurner, which in fact is ridiculousy further from the truth. |
every dog has it's day and trance certinaly had it's in 99. but it's time to move on from the cheesy synths and boring buildups that always sound the same. that time was 3 years ago sadly.
it's fallen into generic barbie doll souvalaki music. and why would u want trance to be respected a s a genre by the "rock triple m" meat heads anyway. trance is stuck back in 99 but it's 2003 and the world has moved on.
Thank you all for your detailed replies. I know this is a topic full of questions that will never be answered, but we can always try. I guess the only thing we can do as individuals is to support whatever trance nights/events are on and take as many people with us to these night/events.
To bassaholix, sorry. I cut and pasted my thread from one I posted on inthemix earlier and there are alot of people on those forums who have nothing better to do but bag out other people.
P.S. My definition of trance is the melodic/uplifting style.
I'll only talk about Sydney as that is the scene I know.
1st of all when you talk about Trance you have to differentiate.
The type of trance that is popular in Europe, and what most of us here like is Uplifting/melodic trance, Ferry/Armin style etc.
What normally passes for trance in the Sydney club scene is hard trance and it is quite popular. Sublime, Plastic, Progress@Gas, various nites at Icebox, the trance rooms at raves etc atest to this. Appart from RNB and "pop dance" it is 2nd only to House music in popularity.
However, there was never been an uplifting/melodic trance scene in Sydney really, the only time it was ever heard was when Internationals came to Sydney.
But when altitude came along it was the first time we had that. I dont agree that all that altitude wasnt a success, every one I went to was pretty much packed out. Likewise I dont think Armin was at all disappointing, it was barely advertised at all, only a week in advance, tickets at the door only and it was damn packed, they coudlnt have fit too many more people in there really.
I think one reason that there arent many club nights dedicated to trance is that they dont make as much money. Because people who listen to trance usually take drugs, where as people who listen to House, drink alcohol. The house nights make heaps more money for venues, which is why there is less incentive for them to play trance.
There are definitely heaps more people on tranceaddict, there is a more of a trance crowd that has built up around altitude and sites like TA and ITM.
Nervous recently announced that transmission will be more trance oriented, he is getting a lot of the Altitude DJs to play, as well as some more unknown trance dj's who will hopefully become household names. This is huge that we now have a big event which is centred on uplifting trance
IMO the uplifting/melodic trance scene in Sydney has come on in leaps and bounds and will continue to do so. No its not going to be like it is in Europe but at least now there seems to be a scene and hopefully if/when Altitude comes back regularly then we will have a regular uplifting trance night too.
Its all cycles.
Trance was big..then people grew up and wanted something deep - prog.
Now the NRG kids are growing up and want something a bit deeper - trance.
IMO.
No need to worry dood... wasn't flaming yah or anything...
and
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| it's fallen into generic barbie doll souvalaki music |
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| IMO the uplifting/melodic trance scene in Sydney has come on in leaps and bounds and will continue to do so. No its not going to be like it is in Europe but at least now there seems to be a scene and hopefully if/when Altitude comes back regularly then we will have a regular uplifting trance night too. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by escee Trance, Sex, Drugs, Food, Holidays. What do all these have in common? After the first time, or the first few times, they arnt as good as it was at the start. Which why genres progress, you try different positions, you take new drugs, you eat strange food, and holiday at different places. |
No matter where they go. I was watching some show about all these poms that go to some place in Spain (not Ibiza) in Summer and all the shops around there sell english food cause none of them want to try and dont like the Spanish food. lol 
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| Originally posted by dj_orpheus I hope so too. I believe that if the club night is to be a success then it needs alot of money thrown at it. Production, advertising, promotion, lighting and sound need to first rate. They need to really challenge Subbies, Plastic and Progress (esp. the first two). People have to want to go to the club all the time. For example, I think it would have been awesome if Altitude was held at Gas and that when you arrived there were people in flight uniforms welcoming you. You were then scanned and admitted, airport style. The doors open at 9pm but nothing starts till 10pm. Everyone gets a free drink on arrival. Then an MC welcomes you all to the club e.g. "Welcome everyone to Flight 001. I'm your captain for this evening and tonight your pilots will be etc. etc." Maybe even have a mini plane suspended from the roof! To me, that sought of effort/originallity is what is required. Just a thought. |
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| Originally posted by dj_orpheus I posted on inthemix earlier and there are alot of people on those forums who have nothing better to do but bag out other people. |
The Gatecrasher mix CDs may seem to have lost it's appeal after the first few volumes, and I believed that until I bought Resident Transmission (fluoro pink cover). There are far too many good tracks on there to say that it's crappy... a few great tracks that come to mind are Sun decade - I'm alone (Ronski speed remix), Fire & ice - San antonio, Push vs globe - Tranceformation, Euphonic - Sahara, Organ donors - Dark suite piano (Frank trax vs ashtrax remix), Nitromethane - Time to die (Seraque remix).
I think the Gatecrasher series is good for the exposure of quality trance to the masses. Similarly with other series like Godskitchen, and some Ministry of sound releases (e.g. Trance nation).
I agree that not everyone who attends trance events has a significant understanding of the music. However, do you think the proportion of people in Europe who really appreciate the music at their huge events is greater than the proportion at events here in Australia? Do you think most of the people who attend the Love Parade go for the music, or do most just attend to get totally drunk/high and party all day & night?
I couldn't be bothered reading all your rants, but dj_orpheus did you post this exact same thing on ITM??
Personally I think things are changing in general as all things do over time. Melbourne already has a new trance nite (5AM) uplifting melodic trance not hard trance, vinylwarning.com.au is almost selling more trance than hard trance (which is unbelieveable in my opinon) and there are more and more trance djs and people appreciating the music. Trance is back in a big way internationally and it is only time until the vibe spreads to Melborune like with all other genres in the past (hard house then progressive house and now trance). The music is evolving and is better than ever in my opinon and so will clubs in time.
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| Originally posted by Hyperdimension Hehehe nice ideas, it would work well. However they can't use the "Altitude" name anymore. What's happened (or happening) with this situation? There's was an event called "Liberty" last Friday, it had a trance room and a house & breaks room... is this the new Altitude? |
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| I couldn't be bothered reading all your rants, but dj_orpheus did you post this exact same thing on ITM?? |
dj_orpheus
This is the most intriguing thread I have read on tranceaddict for a while and all the responses have presented so many interesting points. Hard trance (as much as I like it) will suffer the fate of others genres in the past (eg. hard house or nrg) and lose popularity. Hard trance has an expiry date and give it time things will move back to the softer sound (eg. trance). But for it to change the influential dj's in the scene will have to change their style (eg. hard trance dj's) cos essentially there the ones that influence the punters and bedroom bangers.
Sydney (Nik Fish, Amber Savage, Bexta, Jumping Jack) = HT
Melbourne (Midro, Scott Alert, Nexus, Master Kaos)
= melb. and syd. being hard trance dominated cities.
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