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how come you dont know how to post - a post??
yeah i am sure it needs a genius to post..ill repost my thread again.. i noticed alot of people are giving fastmp3 hard time for having the iraqi flag in his sig? why? doesnt the flag represent the people and not sadam..i am sure if u ask an american what the flag represents he will not say bush...isnt this war called freedom iraq and hence freedom of the flag..so whats up with the hipocracy?
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| Originally posted by tranceaholic yeah i am sure it needs a genius to post..ill repost my thread again.. i noticed alot of people are giving fastmp3 hard time for having the iraqi flag in his sig? why? doesnt the flag represent the people and not sadam..i am sure if u ask an american what the flag represents he will not say bush...isnt this war called freedom iraq and hence freedom of the flag..so whats up with the hipocracy? |
i think that should be up to the people..not for us to pick..its been there even before sadam...so i think we should not flame someone for having a symbol of the very people we r tryin to save..and lives are being risked for.
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| Originally posted by tranceaholic i think that should be up to the people..not for us to pick..its been there even before sadam...so i think we should not flame someone for having a symbol of the very people we r tryin to save..and lives are being risked for. |
Hrmm i dont understand or see the point to this thread unless it is being used to target an individual and set an example.. you're a very sneaky character mike.. YOU are not iraqi.. so dont even talk about the countries flag and what it represents since you are NOT iraqi.. youve probably never been there.. and share no common lifestyle with its people hence you have no idea about its culture.
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| Originally posted by melech_mike That flag represents what Iraq has been since I have been alive - a fascist-hate-filled regime. |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike When liberating Iraqi's, I think it would be a good idea to change the flag into something new... |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike To me, the Iraqi flag symbolizes evil and destruction in this world. It symbolizes human rights violations, death, poverty, terror and fear. |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike Just seems to me that while they are reconstructing a whole new Iraq, why not give it fresh new look - starting with the flag! |
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| Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit Hrmm i dont understand or see the point to this thread unless it is being used to target an individual and set an example.. you're a very sneaky character mike.. YOU are not iraqi.. so dont even talk about the countries flag and what it represents since you are NOT iraqi.. youve probably never been there.. and share no common lifestyle with its people hence you have no idea about its culture. |
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| Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit 1)How old are you? 2)That is the most ridiculous thing ive heard.. what if i told you to change israels flag? |
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| Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit very disrespecful thing to say.. a flag represents a race.. and well to tell a country to change their flag.. hrmm ill let you fill it in since you've been so kind in these forums to easily judge people *extreme sarcasm hinted* |
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| Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit I am trying my best not to answer your questions with rhetoric since you have no idea what your preaching. I feel like im talking to hitler without his passifier... see number 1 |
your points are far more invalid than my points.. its unheard of to strip a country of its flag..
I think you should appologize for your suggestion i found it rude and not funny if it was intended as a joke. You can make a point without going to extreme limits.. its obvious you are anti arab and your arguments only portray one side of the story.. what about the people living in iraq that are suffering in this war. You obviously are thinking economically and being selfish. just dispose of the enemy before they can attack.. Why not simply deal with them in a diplomatic method. this is not the time of caesar where mass take over is acceptable.. this is the 21st century where peace should be prevelant.
Have respect for people and their culture.. If you expect the same in return
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2)I'd ask you why, and since you'll indefinitely have no valid point, i'll just dismiss your ridiculous comments as ignorant and pointless. Which is pretty much your trying to do to me, except i believe i have a point with what i'm saying... does anyone else agree? |
I'm going to just walk carefully into this argument, and try to repharse Nrg2NFinity's argument in a slightly less harsh tone. 
melech_mike, I agree that the Iraq flag has some negative connotations attached to it, and that by the "evil" regime currently in power.
However, trying to change a country's flag based on the perceived "message" of the flag is not a just thing to do, as it's a subjective opinion... based on perception.
That is, let us say some people don't like the American flag, for whatever reasons. Actually, let's say they don't like it because it represents an "evil", imperialist regime bent on taking over the world.
Now, would those people be right in forcing the flag to be changed, even though they may be wrong, their views may be wrong, or they may be perceiving things incorrectly? Certainly not. They don't know what America is like, nor do they perceive its culture and its ideals etc.
Likewise, trying to change Iraq's flag would certainly be sacrilege to the vast majority of Iraqis. Think about it... there is a highly religious message on the flag, so that would be like changing a religious object, how extreme is that? That would be like waging a religious war!
The scary thing is, some people actually DO have the power to change a flag in such a way, which would be wrong and totally unjust not only to Iraq and its people, but to all nations that claim sovereignity and all peoples that claim a common race and heritage. Namely, unjust towards all humanity.
So if America changed Iraq's flag, that would be one of the most inhuman things possible.
melech_mike you may or may not agree with this, due to whatever reasons, whether personal, religious, etc. - but I'm just showing what I think of it all in an objective manner.
Mike, I'll have to fiercely disagree ... MAYBE if the most part (90% in my opinion) of the Iraqi citizens will support a change of the flag, MAYBE then we (as in any international organization such as the UN) should support it...
I'll give you an example, what if today a new leader arose in Israel, that leader would slowly gather support of people (or maybe even start a dictatorship) and will turn the whole country against all Arabs, and will maintain his rule for over 20 years, and what else? He would be an extremist, he would use Chemical/Biological/Neuclear weapons against Iraq and the rest of our neighbours in the mid-east and would publicly execute Palestinians on the streets and so one and so forth - Then after 20 years of reign he will finally be stopped, and replaced... Would YOU agree to replace the Israeli flag? I know it certainly does have a strong symbolic meaning for you. Just as the Iraqui flag to the Iraqui people means half of their individuality and identity...
You might say that our symbols are not only on the flag, and are also representing us for several millenia whilst Iraq's has only existed for a few decades... I say emotions are not to be measured by numbers.
There's nothing offensive in itself about the Iraqi flag. It's simply a bunch of colors with the statement god is great. It was conceived in a spirit of patriotism rather than being built on a platform of hate.
The only time I would consider a flag offensive is if it was forged in the spirit of hate or supremacy. I would consider the Nazi flag offensive, not for what's on in it (the swastika, red, and white), but rather for what those symbolize on the flag.
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In Mein Kampf, Hitler described the Nazis' new flag: "In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic." (pg. 496-497) |
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| Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit .. a flag represents a race.. |
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| Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I disagree, a flag does not represent a race. The American flag stands for the country and everything the country represents. Same for the Iraqi flag. |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike To me, the Iraqi flag symbolizes evil and destruction in this world. It symbolizes human rights violations, death, poverty, terror and fear. What kind of people would want their national flag seen in that light by half the world? |
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| Originally posted by melech_mike To me, the Iraqi flag symbolizes evil and destruction in this world. It symbolizes human rights violations, death, poverty, terror and fear. What kind of people would want their national flag seen in that light by half the world? Just seems to me that while they are reconstructing a whole new Iraq, why not give it fresh new look - starting with the flag! |
but i don't go around doing a whole dilemma about it , or tell the others to remove their flags from their sigs or whatever
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| Originally posted by Trance Plant What do you think the American flag symbolizes to other countries? I'm sure some would argue you could use the same arguments you outlined toward the American flag. TP |
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| Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Only to ignorant fucks that don't know history (especially US history) would it symbolize that. |
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| Originally posted by fastmp3 what about the slavery period ? what about the native indians genocides ? how can you explain it ? |
. Hehe. But yes I get what you're trying to say, it's all based on perspective. Every flag probably has some sordid history behind it.
i couldn't agree more with you occrider
On the iraqi flag, what does it say between the stars?
Allah Akbar ... God is Greater.
Past flags of Iraq ... I dunno if you ask me their older flags seem a little more interesting. You should include all 3 in your sig fastmp3 hehe.
I could care less if they change the flag or not, but a good point could be made for changing it:
"In 1963, with the Baath party in control in Baghdad, Saddam Hussein returned home and began jostling for a position of influence. During this period he married his cousin Sajida. They later had two sons and three daughters.
But within months, the Baath party had been overthrown and he was jailed, remaining there until the party returned to power in a coup in July 1968. Showing ruthless determination that was to become a hallmark of his leadership, Saddam Hussein gained a position on the ruling Revolutionary Command Council.
For years he was the power behind the ailing figure of the president, Ahmed Hassan Bakr. In 1979, he achieved his ambition of becoming head of state. The new president started as he intended to go on - putting to death dozens of his rivals."
- BBC Saddam's bio: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/1100529.stm
"Flag adopted 31 July 1963, modified 13 January 1991"
-http://www.allstates-flag.com/fotw/flags/iq.html
Therefore we see a direct corrolation between this Iraqi flag and the Baath party. It repersents he Baath party, as it has never repersented anything else. It does not repersent the Iraqi people, their culture or their history (they have had a much older traditions that outdate this flag and it could not possibly repersent that all). Understanding this it might be wise to let the Iraqi people decide how they would like to be repersented, an image perhaps not under the cloud of the Baath party.
Izzy:
"The takbir [Allah Akbar (God is great) in Arabic script] in green was added to the 1963 flag during the Gulf War, 13 January1991.
The arabic text may be read from right to left on both sides of the flag, which are identical."
-source as above for flag.
no one would recognize it's Iraq then
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Therefore we see a direct corrolation between this Iraqi flag and the Baath party. It repersents he Baath party, as it has never repersented anything else. It does not repersent the Iraqi people, their culture or their history (they have had a much older traditions that outdate this flag and it could not possibly repersent that all). Understanding this it might be wise to let the Iraqi people decide how they would like to be repersented, an image perhaps not under the cloud of the Baath party. |
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