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Slowing & Speeding Records Slightly...

Hey guys,
For a little background on my question:
I know we all find ourselves in the situation where we have a record in standby to be cued and released in synch to the playing record. The way I do it is I have the platter spinning underneath my slipmat, while I'm cueing over the beat a few times getting ready to release it on top of the playing record's beat.


Assuming the records are properly beatmatched, I release the record at the proper time to get it ready to be cued in. However, I never fully get the beats aligned at first (which is ok, since I have a few moments before I have to mix it in). I find that the records have a small degree of separation between beats, and I try to eliminate this gap using these techniques:
a) gently pushing the record label forward, if the record is slow.
or
b) gently turning the spindle backwards, if the record is fast.

Now here is my question...

Is there a more time/effort efficient manner in aligning two records that could be applied while beatmatching as well as preparing a record to be mixed in?

Thank you!

Theres more than one way to do this, it all depends on what you're comfortable with and what you're accustomed too. Personally I just use the pitch to get rid of the gap, then quickly set it back to the setting I had before. I find that its quicker and more accurate, but if you're not use to doing this its going to require some practice. Hope that helps.

I use the side of the platter, and either brush it to slow it down, or push it to speed it up.

thanks guys... i'll try these out!

I brush the platter to slow it down too.
I don't understand how you could push the platter to make it speed up though?

to speed it up, i press on the label, as close to the spindle as possible.

for me, this is natural, but i'm trying to learn to do it with the pitch slider instead, especially when the track is playing live, it's not as noticeable.

I know 4 possible solutions:
work on record label
work on the side of turntable platter
work on pitch
work on spindle
I don't think that one of this method is absolutely better than the other, it's only a question of habit.

quote:

Originally posted by b|p|3m I know 4 possible solutions: work on record label work on the side of turntable platter work on pitch work on spindle I don't think that one of this method is absolutely better than the other, it's only a question of habit.

no i beleive using the pitch is much better because if you push the lable it might result in the needle jumping then you have a larger gab

quote:

Originally posted by Arsalan no i beleive using the pitch is much better because if you push the lable it might result in the needle jumping then you have a larger gab

You're right
but i think that work on pitch is a bit more difficult

IMO, working the pitch is unparalleled. There is simply nothing better than it when it comes to aligning beats.

The reason is because using physical force is SO unpredictable. You never know when you might push it too far ahead, then you have to panic and scramble to pull it back, and it just sounds awful: "do do do DOOOOO do do DUUUUUU do do"

What I usually do, to answer Rhythm's original question, is after beatmatching a record (shouldn't take too long), I cue it up and leave it, then when it's time to throw it in, I move it back and forth on the beat, as you've said, and try to throw it in time.

Most of the time it's not perfectly thrown in, and the fact that I have Numark TT-100's doesn't help (but it's great for the practice and skill-development).

However! It's good enough so that all I need is a (usually) minor pitch adjustment to bring it back into phase/alignment.

Contrary to what you might think, it's very easy to use the pitch once you develop the beatmatching ear. Actually I'd say it's much easier than physically touching the platter or record. There is infinitely more control, and when you have "the ear", you can use the pitch to bring the record in alignment within 2-3 seconds or so.

All it takes is practice. I heartily and wholeheartedly recommend you all at least try using only the pitch for some time! Once you get used to it, you will never be able to go back to touching the platter/record.

EDIT: a smaller, secondary advantage is that if and when you decide to use CD decks (or are paired up with them at a club etc), you'll already be on top of the game. Whereas if you're used to using physical force... well, you can't exactly push a CD now can you.

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode IMO, working the pitch is unparalleled. There is simply nothing better than it when it comes to aligning beats. The reason is because using physical force is SO unpredictable. You never know when you might push it too far ahead, then you have to panic and scramble to pull it back, and it just sounds awful: "do do do DOOOOO do do DUUUUUU do do" What I usually do, to answer Rhythm's original question, is after beatmatching a record (shouldn't take too long), I cue it up and leave it, then when it's time to throw it in, I move it back and forth on the beat, as you've said, and try to throw it in time. Most of the time it's not perfectly thrown in, and the fact that I have Numark TT-100's doesn't help (but it's great for the practice and skill-development). However! It's good enough so that all I need is a (usually) minor pitch adjustment to bring it back into phase/alignment. Contrary to what you might think, it's very easy to use the pitch once you develop the beatmatching ear. Actually I'd say it's much easier than physically touching the platter or record. There is infinitely more control, and when you have "the ear", you can use the pitch to bring the record in alignment within 2-3 seconds or so. All it takes is practice. I heartily and wholeheartedly recommend you all at least try using only the pitch for some time! Once you get used to it, you will never be able to go back to touching the platter/record. EDIT: a smaller, secondary advantage is that if and when you decide to use CD decks (or are paired up with them at a club etc), you'll already be on top of the game. Whereas if you're used to using physical force... well, you can't exactly push a CD now can you.

Hey guy, you have persuaded me...
Now i think that work on pitch seem to be the best solution!

quote:

Originally posted by Alccode IMO, working the pitch is unparalleled. There is simply nothing better than it when it comes to aligning beats. The reason is because using physical force is SO unpredictable. You never know when you might push it too far ahead, then you have to panic and scramble to pull it back, and it just sounds awful: "do do do DOOOOO do do DUUUUUU do do" What I usually do, to answer Rhythm's original question, is after beatmatching a record (shouldn't take too long), I cue it up and leave it, then when it's time to throw it in, I move it back and forth on the beat, as you've said, and try to throw it in time. Most of the time it's not perfectly thrown in, and the fact that I have Numark TT-100's doesn't help (but it's great for the practice and skill-development). However! It's good enough so that all I need is a (usually) minor pitch adjustment to bring it back into phase/alignment. Contrary to what you might think, it's very easy to use the pitch once you develop the beatmatching ear. Actually I'd say it's much easier than physically touching the platter or record. There is infinitely more control, and when you have "the ear", you can use the pitch to bring the record in alignment within 2-3 seconds or so. All it takes is practice. I heartily and wholeheartedly recommend you all at least try using only the pitch for some time! Once you get used to it, you will never be able to go back to touching the platter/record. EDIT: a smaller, secondary advantage is that if and when you decide to use CD decks (or are paired up with them at a club etc), you'll already be on top of the game. Whereas if you're used to using physical force... well, you can't exactly push a CD now can you.

Umm? Yes you can Push a cd?

That is exactly what you do with a decent CDJ! they are virtual turntables at the end of the day!

using the pitch is good providing you move it back to exactly where it was which aint always so easy, imo it would be better to learn using the hands on approach then although the actual correction has more chance of going wrong, your beatmatching won't.

nevertheless, i use all methods, just what seems appropriate at the time...

It depends on the tables you use. I had a go on a pair of pioneer tables and using the platter to slow down the record was a bad idea.

If you're using a decent deck, then if you're only adjusting to correct your throwing in of the track, then I suggest you leave the pitch slider alone. You've already made sure it's spot on, there's no point in making it off. Just manually bring the track in line.

As far as beat matching methods go, I think its all a matter of choice. If it works, do it. I touch the platter and the label to match and it works fine for me. I don't see why I should have to change.

quote:

Originally posted by Project T using the pitch is good providing you move it back to exactly where it was which aint always so easy, imo it would be better to learn using the hands on approach then although the actual correction has more chance of going wrong, your beatmatching won't. nevertheless, i use all methods, just what seems appropriate at the time...

quote:

hey cheggy It depends on the tables you use. I had a go on a pair of pioneer tables and using the platter to slow down the record was a bad idea. If you're using a decent deck, then if you're only adjusting to correct your throwing in of the track, then I suggest you leave the pitch slider alone. You've already made sure it's spot on, there's no point in making it off. Just manually bring the track in line. As far as beat matching methods go, I think its all a matter of choice. If it works, do it. I touch the platter and the label to match and it works fine for me. I don't see why I should have to change.

(EDIT: This is just how I see things, you don't have to agree with me at all.)

Interesting viewpoints - I personally disagree, though. The pitch is IMO the best way regardless.

I have a pair of Numark TT-100's, the torque is not very good, so being physical is not reliable at all. However, the pitch is also not very good! I've noticed that it doesn't really lock-in all that well as I'd like to. Technics are a lot better.

Despite this, I still advocate using the pitch, because if you can master beatmatching with a wobbly pitch, on crappier decks - and likewise if you can master aligning two records using the pitch only - then you will be very good when you move up to good decks like Technics.

I think the goal for every DJ is to spin music, to be with the crowd, to spin his set - in short, to enjoy! So there's no point spending 70% of your time hunched over a turntable, beatmatching a record so that you can have it perfectly matched. If you watch some professional DJ's, like AVB or you name it, you will notice that they don't spend a lot of time beatmatching. Hell, if you're not careful, you'll even miss the time when they beatmatch! Why? Because they are very good! After beatmatching, when they throw in a record, they move the pitch slider up-down-up, taking 2-3 seconds max, and boom, they're done. They don't spend 3 minutes beatmatching. I think that's admirable, and worth aspiring to - wouldn't you want to be as good as that? So it's worth investing time practicing a lot, thereby mastering the pitch method and mastering the technical aspects of DJ'ing.

I agree that it is difficult to use the pitch if the decks are not very good, and I also agree that it might seem more attractive to use physical force if you have good decks.

All I am saying is that you might as well go all the way and get really good at using the pitch. Trust me, it feels a lot better, it's a lot more accurate, and as a result you are confident in your mixes and beatmatching, and can spend time waving your arms or doing your DJ thing.



P.S. Another little thing:

When using the pitch, as JohnSmith said, it's less noticeable to the crowd when you adjust the record.

No beatmatch is exactly perfect, and occasionally you will have a record going out of time. If you push it or use your hand, then it will most likely be noticeable due to the sudden change in sound: wooUUUUooo - you know the sound I mean... If you use the pitch, it's very hard to tell, from the point of view of the crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by str0be Umm? Yes you can Push a cd? That is exactly what you do with a decent CDJ! they are virtual turntables at the end of the day!

Oh!

I don't have a lot of experience with CDJ's, with the CD decks I've used, they just have a pitch slider.

In any case what I said above still holds, at least for vinyl. In terms of CD decks, I'm willing to bet that using the pitch is still more accurate than using the jog wheel thingy or whatever the real name is.

yeah, the pitch is defintely better. Fixing the error is the easy part, but where i have a problem is putting the pitch back where it was, then my mix keeps drifting, and i have to keep correcting it. that's why i prefer to touch the record.

as for it being more noticeable, it is, but only on melodic or chord parts. if it's just kicks and snares, nobody will likely notice if you touch the record.

one more tip, slowing down the record by brushing the platter is a good solution, because it reacts the same for ever record, and the needle is not likely to slip. for this reason, i try to have my tracks coming in a TOUCH faster than the outgoing. then you can always just brush a bit if you hear it's going off. this will also slightly accelerate the tempo of your mix as you go, so that's a good thing too. Shit i wanna go mix now!

Nah! Its called a 'Jog Dial' and u can manipulate it back and forth about x10 the amount u can with a turntable due to it eing digital. Im a 100% vinyl addict and have been for years, but the reality is that you can do things with a CDJ that u just cuddent do with vinyl. Ask any premier league DJ

cool thank you all for the input... ima work on my pitch beatmatching skills and see how that feels. i've also tried aligning high/mids instead of the kicks... does work better for me - takes a little getting used to. touching the platter to slow records is working nicely for me. i still use the label nearest to the spindle to speed records up if the gap is large btw beats, but ima try to master the pitch beatmatching.

thanks again everyone for your input

i am like you guys, trying to master the pitch control

hwen beat matching i find it faster to use my hands manually on the record to get it correct and then make fine adjustments using the pitch, this takes a max of 1 minute. then when i drop in the qued track i listen to it through the headphones to make sure its synched...then mix it in. if it starts going off i only ever use the pitch control, as said, unless its just bass, it is very obvious when you slow/speed up the record.

the problem with the pitch is its hard to get it back to the original position, so you waste a lot of time at the beginning getting it just right, and then when playing it live you screw it up straight away.

however i guess once you get good, you can quickly get it in synch again and it shouldn't take you 1 min to beatmatch anyway like the dude above said, the pros take like 10 secs to get it pretty much bang on and then they do other things.

the only annoying thing about not getting it 100% correct is when you are mixing it in you have to keep worrying about the beats going slightly out of time - ie less time to play with the eq's/volume to smooth it out

Using the pitch control is the best way. its just u have to practice like all other thinggs. it sounds better and its looks more professional when the crowd is in front of you. just look at how the pro's do it.

2 Questions

1. Can someone fully describe the method of pitchmatching, I mean do you slide the pitch up to +1 fast and then move it back to where it was?

2. When pitchmatching, and the record is not beatmatched yet, do you also avoid any physical contact of the record or platter, when you're not mixing it live yet?

well the way i do it when its live is

1 - try and listen to which is going faster or slower

2 - adjust record which has lowest volume, move pitch up/down (depending on what your ears tell you) keeping note of original position

3 - if it fixes double beat, quickly move pitch slider back and a tiny bit higher/lower then it was originally

the problem is if you don't get it right, it will go out of phase again and you are constantly playing with it to get right and this can sound worse then physically touching the record

all about practice really

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Xtronic 1. Can someone fully describe the method of pitchmatching, I mean do you slide the pitch up to +1 fast and then move it back to where it was?

Yes

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Xtronic 2. When pitchmatching, and the record is not beatmatched yet, do you also avoid any physical contact of the record or platter, when you're not mixing it live yet?

No.

When i am beatmatching the record in my headphones only, i manipulate the platter and touch the record. when it's off by a lot, it would be way too time consuming to use the pitch method.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Xtronic 2 Questions 1. Can someone fully describe the method of pitchmatching, I mean do you slide the pitch up to +1 fast and then move it back to where it was? 2. When pitchmatching, and the record is not beatmatched yet, do you also avoid any physical contact of the record or platter, when you're not mixing it live yet?

think of that as two cars running in different speeds, if one is apart from the other u need to slow\speed her up abit, when theyll come togather u need them in the same speed, so u put the speed in the speed u think will match the other car... get it??

It just takes practice....after doing it a bunch of times you just get used to how it works and you know how far back you have to bring the fader depending on how fast/slow it's going. It's really not as hard as it seems to put it back where you need it especially with a +/- 8% control. This is the only way that I've found that I can beatmatch effectively on my Str8-80.

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