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Posted by DR86 on Mar-31-2003 04:41:

Facts

OK guys, just read this please....

I'm sure that melech_mike, cyrus king, occrider, and all of those other great debaters out there will agree with me. PLEASE HAVE YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU POST IN ANY THREAD!! This will decrease the amount of tension on this board, so make sure you know 100% that your facts are correct.
And yes, I do know a thing or two about this stuff, I'm not just another dumbass....Thank you

Posted by malek on Mar-31-2003 04:53:

I agree with you. But some people here who have always the same news source (i.e. IDF lol) think that their stuff is 100% accurate... so thats the major problem in here.

Posted by DR86 on Mar-31-2003 04:58:

Okay, before anybody else gets a chance to post in here, let me also say this. If you are going to say stuff like "that person's facts come from Source X" I want you to prove it. I want you to prove that this is where that person got the information. And then, I want to see that the person who posted that information can prove that the source is 100% non-biased. With that being said, how about we don't quote from either Arabic or Hebrew periodicals....Guys look, this is a very heavily trafficked board, how about we DEBATE your ideas like ADULTS, and not BICKER like ignorant CHILDREN???

Posted by malek on Mar-31-2003 05:04:

None of the two sides believe in the others' media... too much mistrust. A great shame

Posted by DR86 on Mar-31-2003 05:14:

quote:
Originally posted by ahlamalek
None of the two sides believe in the others' media... too much mistrust. A great shame

which is why i'm saying that we should use non-biased sources

Posted by occrider on Mar-31-2003 05:41:

quote:
Originally posted by DrummeRaver86
which is why i'm saying that we should use non-biased sources

Too bad there's no such thing . I agree with the main point of what you are trying to say though. People should spend 5 minutes researching what they are trying to say before they say it. If it holds up to 5 minutes of googling it's fair game to post hehe.

Posted by Izzy on Mar-31-2003 07:09:

i agree, way to many times i've been dissapointed to see facts either being totally misrepresented and even worse, made up. without a stable foundation (facts) one can not build a logical arguement.

now as to sources such as IDF. no one will doubt that some sources have exclusive information that can not be reported otherwise. an example would be an interegation of a prisioner who reveiles information on the structure or workings of terrorist organization. now one cant go and dis-claim such information as a lie because there is no other way to verify it. So what are you going to do then? obvioulsy there is bias but i tend to look open and free goverenment backed information with slightly more factual prespective then not. Once we label such information as lies why would we belive anything else a government says? its absurd... you see those GDP figures - lies. how about those crime rates - lies. such info is only attianable by government agencies. if you take one as lie you must take all. So, if you belive the IDF lies you must therefore conclude that Israel as a country decieves and lies to the world, which is something i dont belive in (and could prove becuase israeli government and army is held accountable by its judicary system)

Posted by malek on Mar-31-2003 07:12:

to each his own beliefs

Posted by rupert on Mar-31-2003 08:46:

quote:
So, if you belive the IDF lies you must therefore conclude that Israel as a country decieves and lies to the world

Exactly.

In Pity the Nation Robert Fisk specifically details cases where the IDF systematically lied to the media, even its own soldiers about the war in Lebanon. Deliberately and systematically decieving both the world media and its own people.

Posted by melech_mike on Mar-31-2003 08:50:

quote:
Originally posted by rupert
Exactly.

In Pity the Nation Robert Fisk specifically details cases where the IDF systematically lied to the media, even its own soldiers about the war in Lebanon. Deliberately and systematically decieving both the world media and its own people.

Think youd be able to quote him?
does he cite sources?

Posted by rupert on Mar-31-2003 09:07:

1) He was there no need to provide references for things he actually saw.

2) In one report of the IDF about Operation Peace for Gallilee, they actually used his material but of course excised all the stuff about bombing hospitals, which he actually saw the aftereffects with his own eyes.

To the IDF any casualties are always terrorists.

Posted by occrider on Mar-31-2003 16:57:

quote:
Originally posted by rupert
To the IDF any casualties are always terrorists.

And to many Palestinians any casuaties are always innocent civilians.

Posted by torontotrance on Mar-31-2003 17:47:

innocent people always suffer...wtc,bombings in middle east, iraq. Then again, no news source is without bias.

Posted by DR86 on Mar-31-2003 20:38:

Are you telling me that organizations like the Associated Press (AP) and Reuters are not going to tell the FACTS of a story? If this is the situation, then we're all going to hell. But these types of news services do not have biases. Maybe we should define a bias.....

Posted by occrider on Mar-31-2003 20:52:

quote:
Originally posted by DrummeRaver86
Are you telling me that organizations like the Associated Press (AP) and Reuters are not going to tell the FACTS of a story? If this is the situation, then we're all going to hell. But these types of news services do not have biases. Maybe we should define a bias.....

They are not biased in the sense that they are misleading us. I would place much confidence in anything that reuters says since they tend to be very factual. However, it's biased in the sense that it is not providing completely comprehensive coverage on an issue. They are not doing this on purpose and I'm sure they try to cover every angle, but put simply, they do not have the resources to cover every angle of every story. Essentially no news organizations has that capability. Also any news agency is prone to errors or false sources ... I'm not saying we should discredit reuters or ap as being misleading, I'm simply saying that we shouldn't rely on those sources alone.

Posted by Yoepus on Apr-01-2003 02:19:

quote:
Originally posted by Izzy
So what are you going to do then? obvioulsy there is bias but i tend to look open and free goverenment backed information with slightly more factual prespective then not. Once we label such information as lies why would we belive anything else a government says? its absurd... you see those GDP figures - lies. how about those crime rates - lies. such info is only attianable by government agencies. if you take one as lie you must take all. So, if you belive the IDF lies you must therefore conclude that Israel as a country decieves and lies to the world, which is something i dont belive in (and could prove becuase israeli government and army is held accountable by its judicary system)

OHHH fancy, someone has been reading his Kant I believe eh?

If someone would break their promise then no one would honor promises anymore, and this is self-defeating so breaking promises is not good. huh?!