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Leon
88mph



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Nov 2004
club tunes vs artistic tunes

after making that thread about the komytea-afghanistan tune, I've come to realize that the scene is splitting from right underneath our feet

not sure when it started to happen, but professionally articulated "club" tracks have been becoming more and more popular in genres where we thought we'd never see them. from trance to progressive, shitloads of tunes have been getting released by product of their engineering nature rather than composition. what do I mean engineering? engineering a tune from something out of nothing, with use of things like delays, reverbs, mastering tricks and trends, etc etc.. the list doesn't stop here

let's not get into the blame game, whether vsti, labels, or beatport is to blame or not, let me first ask: do you like it? do you download,listen,play and enjoy it?

now my personal opinion is this... I think its hard to really get into these tunes unless youre listening to them on a loud soundsystem. for example, that bassline in that komytea tune. I don't think its anything new, nor anything else they put out. I do think however it'll make my brain vibrate, which is cool in a club. it's part of the experience. but AT THE SAME TIME, I wouldn't really put it on my ipod to study to. it wouldn't be something memorable that I can listen to in the future and feel the same feeling I had when I first heard it. I don't know. I'm really split, and as a producer myself, I don't want to become a product of commercialism.

from the previous thread, I did notice that everyone had a different opinion, and I'd like to know why. This is not something that will 'pan away' like someone wrote, I do think that commercial club sound will be here to stay and grow, as it sucks more outsiders into the club scene (look at what's happening with that deadmau5 sound. alot of my friends that weren't into EDM are way into it now).

what's going on ;/


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Old Post Feb-20-2009 04:34 
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MrJiveBoJingles
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: U.S.

Yeah, there are lots of tracks that can be superficially attractive because of ear-tickling effects of various kinds, but that won't have much effect on me after a few listens. I steer clear of them because I like stuff that I can come back to years later and still enjoy, which for me usually means having memorable melodic parts rather than a bit of sparse musical material drenched in effects.

Old Post Feb-20-2009 06:56  United States
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Darkarbiter
Psysnob



Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Melbourne

quote:
Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Yeah, there are lots of tracks that can be superficially attractive because of ear-tickling effects of various kinds, but that won't have much effect on me after a few listens. I steer clear of them because I like stuff that I can come back to years later and still enjoy, which for me usually means having memorable melodic parts rather than a bit of sparse musical material drenched in effects.


I agree generally, however effects can be used intelligently and add a lot to the feeling of the track.


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Old Post Feb-20-2009 09:40  Australia
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Leon
88mph



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Nov 2004

if there's something there to start with yea


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Old Post Feb-20-2009 10:06 
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Mr.Mystery
Static Guru



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Vantaa

quote:
Originally posted by Darkarbiter
I agree generally, however effects can be used intelligently and add a lot to the feeling of the track.

Yeah. Unfortunately most of the time effects are used to mask the complete lack of ideas.

A good track should work everywhere, not just in a club.


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Old Post Feb-20-2009 10:12  Finland
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Leon
88mph



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Nov 2004

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Yeah. Unfortunately most of the time effects are used to mask the complete lack of ideas.

A good track should work everywhere, not just in a club.


come to think of it they didn't really get away with that shit back in the oldschool days, the melodies were straight up the tunes haha


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Old Post Feb-20-2009 10:14 
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SuspicionVandit
Rapper



Registered: Nov 2005
Location: 127.0.0.1


should i stroke my goatee or put my hands up in the air?

i ponder i ponder

yonder fer yonder


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Old Post Feb-20-2009 10:32 
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stevėsto
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2006
Location: St Petersburg, FL

I think in general, people are tired of artsy fartsiness in dance music. people just want to go back to the good ole days when it was raunchy and fun. many dj's focus too much on "building a set" and "taking you on a journey" or expressing themselves artistically through a sequence of tracks, that they forget the number 1 priority is have a dancefloor moving.

The reason why people are tired of it is because minimal/tech became popular to the point that's all you'd hear all night long in the club, from beginning to end. Just like a track has a time and place, so do genres. Doesn't make sense to play one flavor all night long. It's "boring europe's dancefloors to death" right now:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/mus...al.techno.house

Another reason is because this music is hard to work with. Think about it: you could play some popular mainstream dance classics that all you have to do is hit play on the cd player and even your grandma will get up and dance, like "baby got back" or "groove is in the heart" etc. On the opposite end of the spectrum, very long repetitive trancey tracks ... do not work on their own, at 0+ pitch. The artsier and trancier, the more talented the DJ needs to be to make it work. That's exactly the problem, you have a million djs that are not talented enough to play the music they are playing.

Another reason is trendiness. Its remarkable really, how ricardo willalobo starts to play tracks with accordians, trumpets, clarinets, and within weeks you see the minimal charts filled with tracks with this formula. Its amazing how powerful this one man's opinion is, that suddenly its not the glitchy sound that's hip, it's the organic minimal sound like the ones Clovis listed that all the "underground" djs play now. At this point a lot of artistic credibility is lost, it becomes more of a synthetic mind trickery thing, wrapped in an organic instrumentation ladened blanket. To be artistic is to express yourself. Ricardo, Luciano, they played tracks with that sound to express their cultural roots, so when i hear white suburban dorks playing it i can't help but roll my eyes. If you want to be artistic, do something really crazy and different from everyone else. Go home right now and do a minimal tech track mashup with an 80's metal hair band song. Anything! Just something for the love of god that no one else is doing. Please! Be unique! Don't worry if no one else likes it or you get kicked off the booth, take a chance for once.

Another reason is it lacks sex appeal. Its mental hypnotic music, with ryhthms that are hard to get on a girl's booty with.

Combine all of this and its only a matter of time when an aspiring producer on the dancefloor goes home frustrated and says "fuck it" and does a reactionary thing like make music on the opposite end of the spectrum of artsy fartsy music, such as justice, boyz noize, indie rock etc. This is why, in my opinion, there is a big divide, a split, in dance music today.

Old Post Feb-20-2009 16:30 
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BlueSky
Johnny Bravo



Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Progland

quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
A good track should work everywhere, not just in a club.


End.


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However, EDM seems to be political for some people - it's not about the music itself but it's about what the music symbolises, where the music came from, who spins it and how obscure it is.

Old Post Feb-20-2009 16:41  Bulgaria
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MrJiveBoJingles
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: U.S.

quote:
Originally posted by stevėsto
To be artistic is to express yourself. Ricardo, Luciano, they played tracks with that sound to express their cultural roots, so when i hear white suburban dorks playing it i can't help but roll my eyes.

LOL, what "cultural roots" does a white suburban dork even have to express in the context of dance music? I don't see Bach or Stockhausen getting many bodies moving. Maybe our hypothetical dorky white guy can play some bluegrass?



I don't see why so much should be made of the issue of race in dance music anyway. Just play what you like and try not to be too much of a trendwhore...

Old Post Feb-20-2009 16:42  United States
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Zak McKracken
Trance



Registered: Jun 2003
Location:

is this something new??? did really acid house work anywhere else than in a club? did supersaw trance or rough chris liebing techno work anywhere else than in big arenas? did minimal work anywhere at all but in jazz clubs? the only genre i know about which works everywhere is old fashion progressive stuff like forbidden paradice 12, but actually most people find that stuff too boring for a club and also at home really so i guess it works everywhere beacuse it doesnt try to be anything, its just humble and in the background. i dont think u can have both when it comes to "full-on"-dance music, except for prodigy and underworld hense the reason why these are still considered genious productions.

Old Post Feb-20-2009 17:06 
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Lomeli
Mountain Thug



Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Entuculo, Mexico

Nathan Fake - The Sky Was Pink (James Holden Remix)

that track is artsy as fuck yet it works at the club.

Old Post Feb-20-2009 17:23  Mexico
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