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Originally posted by CunningLinguist There was all this hoopla over Hamm. Turns out there was an error in the judge's scoring and a SOuth Korean gymnast should have received the gold. The powers that be wont reverse this so Hamm keeps the gold. Why? This is ridiculous. Why can't they go back and correct the mistake? Why can't the person who actually deserved the gold medal get the prize he has trained all his life for? The worse part is Hamm won't give it up. If he's a true sportsman he should hand it over. The world is already fed up w/ dubious American politics. I know this is a small event, but dignified actions in even the smallest areas can have profound consequences. To quote from MSNBC "Paul Hamm had his golden moment, and he grabbed it like a starving wolf latching onto a lamb chop. And now he has a golden opportunity, worth a lifetime of moments, and if he doesn’t grab it right now, it will be gone forever. He may already have missed his chance to show the world that Americans still believe in sportsmanship and to generate the kind of goodwill that this country will never recover, no matter how many times the White House issues statements about how much better off Iraq is now than it was before we brought peace, harmony, democracy and full employment there. "

well you can never go back and change things..who is to say they didnt make a mistake in one of hamm's previous routines..everyone would want to go back to check if his score is correct or not and that would be a total mess. you live and die by the rules and the rules say that once a descision is made it is final.

its a tough call. i mean, if you win gold you wouldnt want to give it up for anything, but i suppose if i was in the same position, i would try and be a good sport and hand it over. either way, its hard to really imagine what must have gone through the heads of the south koreans and american's head when they found out it was a mistake...

Ok before you get your panties all in a bunch there are a couple things.

1) The rule states that you have to file the protest during the day of the event. The Koreans filed it a day later.

2) The judges were already dismissed.

3) The American and Korean teams tried to get the Korean a gold medal but the Olympic committee has closed the matter.

4) Why should he give it back? Is it any more fair telling someone they won and taking it back?

5) They showed replays today and the Korean actually should have had a .2 deduction on his parallel bar routine that wasn't caught due to him having +1 hold move than you are allowed. This would have moved him below ham but wasn't caught.

6) Bad calls are made in many sports and they often come down to judges and no one is perfect but rules are rules. Look in boxing, you have judges awarding points and often people are like "that guy should have never won" but they do. And protesting does little unless the rules are followed.

So in summary please don't blame this on Hamm, the guy was given the medal because of his effort and apparent winning at the time. The only people to blame can be the judges for their calls, but in hindsight from that other error he would have still won.

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Under the rules, the South Korean lost. The team could have protested during the allotted time to do so, but they didn't. Medals aren't awarded on "what's fair" - they're awarded on the basis of the highest score under the rules.

The Winter Olympics case with the Canadians is not comparable, as there were illegal actions that happened within the scoring. This gymnastics case was an honest mistake, like a bad offsides call in soccer, or a bad call at the plate by a baseball ump.

Oh yeah...one more thing. Remember Roy Jones? Ok, South Korea. We're even now.

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

The Korean should get the gold.
Should Hamm give his back - dunno.

A couple of things tho.

The officials admitted they made a mistake - they suspended the judges because of it. They should then right this wrong.

Why not take the gold off Hamm - they already have done that to the German equestrian team, then gave them back, then took them back again!!

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**Man I'm Pretty**

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Ok before you get your panties all in a bunch there are a couple things. 1) The rule states that you have to file the protest during the day of the event. The Koreans filed it a day later. 2) The judges were already dismissed. 3) The American and Korean teams tried to get the Korean a gold medal but the Olympic committee has closed the matter. 4) Why should he give it back? Is it any more fair telling someone they won and taking it back? 5) They showed replays today and the Korean actually should have had a .2 deduction on his parallel bar routine that wasn't caught due to him having +1 hold move than you are allowed. This would have moved him below ham but wasn't caught. 6) Bad calls are made in many sports and they often come down to judges and no one is perfect but rules are rules. Look in boxing, you have judges awarding points and often people are like "that guy should have never won" but they do. And protesting does little unless the rules are followed. So in summary please don't blame this on Hamm, the guy was given the medal because of his effort and apparent winning at the time. The only people to blame can be the judges for their calls, but in hindsight from that other error he would have still won.

i couldnt have said it any better. that guy should be lucky that he got the bronze since they didnt catch that other deduction for having too many holds (i saw on NBC when they broke down the video ).

we live in the us, so of course the media is going to make it like hamm is a hero and blah blah "the korean shouldn't have won anyway." i know if that were me, i would give it back.

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*can't imagine it feelin' much better...
i wish it would just last forever.
and so, to feel like that?
i'd pay any price just to get that back.*

I just don't know what's with us and the US in the olympics.

God as if i didn't hear enough controversy with Apollo Ohno in Salt Lake.

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"What does that C on your sweater stand
for... selfish?"

- Claude Lemieux

I don't know how Hamm can even enjoy the medal after finding out about the mistake. Though, he did very well in three routines. Whether there were mistakes made before the South Korean one or not, everyone will remember this one, because it was admitted and made a biug deal. So, poor Hamm will always be surrounded by people that think he sould not have won the gold. I really do feel sorry for Hamm and the South Korean.

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JEeezzzz.. same people always trying to be the TOUGH, TOO BAD comments .

I'd say this. If HAMM knows, after finding out of the mistake, he knows that the GOLD was not won in the purest way.. meaning, He didnt really winn it. Like said, Sportsmanship.. that's all there is. The judged made the mistake, yeah.. Hamm shouldnt pay for it, but he should recognize and do the right thing. IS not about.. Oohh The rules are like this, TOOOOOOO BAAAAAAAD!!!.. Whatever happened to Fairness this days?!?!.. Especially in an event like this, and if mistake was found, then, what better then to correct it, and is all in Hamms hands to do so..

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX JEeezzzz.. same people always trying to be the TOUGH, TOO BAD comments . I'd say this. If HAMM knows, after finding out of the mistake, he knows that the GOLD was not won in the purest way.. meaning, He didnt really winn it. Like said, Sportsmanship.. that's all there is. The judged made the mistake, yeah.. Hamm shouldnt pay for it, but he should recognize and do the right thing. IS not about.. Oohh The rules are like this, TOOOOOOO BAAAAAAAD!!!.. Whatever happened to Fairness this days?!?!.. Especially in an event like this, and if mistake was found, then, what better then to correct it, and is all in Hamms hands to do so..

I don't understand how anyone can make this argument anymore. You seem to forget already that after it was discovered that the start value was wrong, that the standard deduction for an extra hold wasn't made either. If then it's all about "fairness these days" then it would be that the S. Korean would have the start value added, then extra deduction taken, and we are back where we started. Even if the start value was credited, and the deduction missed, Hamm was last on his routine and would have known what score to attempt to post. He could have, in theory, changed his routine or done it differently to try and get a different score.

Then, if we are going to go back and look at scoring and replays...they simply should hold the whole contest with no scoring then take 3 weeks to video replay all events to determine what scores to give....then a year after the Olympics we'll have a medals ceremony for all the winners...this way athletes that move up to a medal after all the doping violations go through will get to actually stand on the podium.

As long as there are judged and timed sports, there will always be human error. There are protest measures in place for when routines/matches appear to be incorrectly judged..but they must be followed correctly, where in this case, they may have not been done so. Hamm just did his routine under the circumstances...he's the innocent one caught in a situation he had no control of....He's in the right for just trying to stay out of it.

The High Bar Routine in the Indivdual Event finals with the Russian was a far more disgraceful display of judging than the mistake made in the all-around.

Oh My God...I'm talking about Mens Gymnastics....shame on me....next it will be about Dressage.

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"I'd like to buy a techno song."