I used to beat everyone down until I ran my own business and realised making people work for peanuts isn't clever and has real effects on other families.

I actually offer more when a local trader (like a builder for example) offers too cheap a price as I don't want him to work for nothing. His kids deserve a decent life.

Makes me sound sort of saintly, lol, but it's just the way I am now.

If it was a big national firm then I'd take a lower price though.

I've known music shop owners that sleep with worry each night as they struggle to make a living.

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quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I used to beat everyone down until I ran my own business and realised making people work for peanuts isn't clever and has real effects on other families. I actually offer more when a local trader (like a builder for example) offers too cheap a price as I don't want him to work for nothing. His kids deserve a decent life. Makes me sound sort of saintly, lol, but it's just the way I am now. If it was a big national firm then I'd take a lower price though. I've known music shop owners that sleep with worry each night as they struggle to make a living.

+1

The pursuit of bottom dollar is destroying civilisation.

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quote:

Originally posted by tehlord The pursuit of bottom dollar is destroying civilisation.

DJ idolatry already destroyed it.

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fuck that. save your pity for a worthy cause.

you paint a bleak picture. in reality, most well-run businesses are making a nice profit. if it comes down to whether they get the sale or not, why wouldn't they give you a discount?

in the end, they are still making a profit, just a bit less, it will still be substantial in some cases - and they can simply restock the item if it is still in demand. a lot of the time you may even be doing them a favour if they have boxes of your item that they could not shift.

i bought a pioneer 909 mixer roughly 8 years ago for £800... that was the going price. today, the same item? £1500 - £1999! no joke. you're a chump if you pay that!

that means, they are probably raking in £1000 profit on some of those sales.

bottom dollar nothing... this is expensive luxury goods we are talking about here.

basically, you are only asking for a discount. they can tell you to go fuck off if they like - but a lot of them will be happy to do business.

Last edited by rubez on Mar-25-2015 at 17:21

Another quality rubez thread.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez that means, they are probably raking in £1000 profit on some of those sales.

I'm concerned you might actually believe that's true.

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can you tell me why the 909 has shot up by £1000? inflation?

it's the same on all high end electronics, the mark up prices can be staggering.

i realise that they have to keep the lights on, pay their staff etc.

if you keep an eye on prices, they fluctuate wildly. supply and demand. if they don't want to do business, they can simply refuse you.

Rubez you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about here.

I used to manage the largest Pro Audio Retailer in Europe. I can tell you that margins in the pro audio industry are pathetic so you might want to research before you start bleating out nonsense.

A good margin on say a $1000 synth is between 17% and 21%. That means $170 to $210.

The more boutique stuff can have higher margins as they are harder to get and the manufacturers typically have stronger control over RRP's/MAP's, but when it comes to the larger brands, the RRP is virtually never adhered to.

In fact nearly all major product manufacturers know their published RRP is never observed.

There were only one or two large brands that (Avid, Acesss for instance) that really kept good control over their street pricing and would pull the authorization from the retailer if they got wind of it being undersold.

Do you know what margin Mac's are sold at via 3rd party retailers? Less than 7%. When we were selling the first metal case Mac Pro's, the margin was 3%. Basically a loss by the time you paid salesmen and shipping etc.

Pioneer ream you for the following reasons:

1, They launch shit cheap to get it in to the market. Part of their business model is market saturation, or trying to put everyone else out of business.

2, They rely on muppets who endlessly upgrade to the mk2, mk3 version or go from a 500 to a 600 to 900 to a 3000 etc, so they effectively get to sell the same product 5 times over.

3, DJ equipment typically has the highest ratio of RRP to real street price, sometimes as much as 45-50%. Goes with the territory (DJ's are hagglers and the industry is run like the second hand car market).

4, Pioneer are in financial trouble, they fired a bunch of poeple last year as a cost cutting measure and even tried to spin off the DJ arm of their business.

5, Some electronic stuff actually gets more expensive over time; precious metals for instance used in microprocessors and LCD/amoled screens are a commodity and have vastly gone up in price over the last few years. Same with copper - it's value has doubled in the last 10 years and in 2012 it was 4 times as high as it was 3 years earlier.

Oh and you're also completely deluded about the markups on high end electronics; why do you think all the custom installers basically are not bothering with supplying the electronics anymore and the 3rd party pro AV trade sellers have nearly all gone bust? They can't compete with the high street and online retailers anymore who are happy to sell TV's at 10% margins.

I know one of the top AV/Home threatre/Hifi installers here in LA. Just did Rick Rubins house. He goes to the same you or I would to buy the equipment, charges it at cost, and then only makes his money on installing/labor and support.

You should really do you research.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez can you tell me why the 909 has shot up by £1000? inflation? it's the same on all high end electronics, the mark up prices can be staggering. i realise that they have to keep the lights on, pay their staff etc. if you keep an eye on prices, they fluctuate wildly. supply and demand. if they don't want to do business, they can simply refuse you.

Do you know what 'scarcity' means? Just because something cost 800 quid then and 1800 now doesn't mean that these people are buying them at 800.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN

there are retailers selling the 909 for £1500, and some selling it for £2000. one of them is making a much healthier profit.