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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX
Sad This just breaks my heart

Warning!
Don't view this in front of your boss


























Mr. Bush needs to see this picture.

I couldn't help but to cry:

quote:
Basra, Iraq. March 22, 2003
Man carries body of small girl
killed during the siege of Basra.
Photo: Amr Nabil, AP











Was it worth it?
Are the people of the US any safer?
Are the people of Iraq better off?



(I'm sorry I don't know more about the circumstances of this picture)


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Last edited by DaveSZ on Sep-24-2003 at 09:36

Old Post Sep-24-2003 09:17 
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Chuck Norris
milfhunter in training



Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Missing In Action

That's bush for you. =|


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Old Post Sep-24-2003 14:02 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

Dammit I need a subscription to gallup!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/focus/sr030924.asp

but this should provide the answer to your question Dave (although it only reflects baghdad's opinions, not necessarily the whole country which may have better/worse opinions)


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Old Post Sep-24-2003 14:11  United States
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IronDragon
Ya'll be some busters



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: So sleepy

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Dammit I need a subscription to gallup!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/focus/sr030924.asp

but this should provide the answer to your question Dave (although it only reflects baghdad's opinions, not necessarily the whole country which may have better/worse opinions)


Not really, so long as you have cable news.

The numbers so far (one's I can remember at least) are about what I'd expect

The percentage of people who think the U.S invasion was worth it was something like 62%, while those who though otherwise was about 30%.

Some 87% of those polled said they believed Iraq would be a better place 5 years from now whereas only about 5% said it would be worse

Still, 44% said they have an unfavorable view of the United States whereas only 29% said they have a favorable one.

As for the governing council (no numbers given) the people reportedly have a favorable opinion of them, but worry that they lack an indepenedent political will separate from the CPA.

Old Post Sep-24-2003 14:16 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by IronDragon
Not really, so long as you have cable news.

The numbers so far (one's I can remember at least) are about what I'd expect

The percentage of people who think the U.S invasion was worth it was something like 62%, while those who though otherwise was about 30%.

Some 87% of those polled said they believed Iraq would be a better place 5 years from now whereas only about 5% said it would be worse

Still, 44% said they have an unfavorable view of the United States whereas only 29% said they have a favorable one.

As for the governing council (no numbers given) the people reportedly have a favorable opinion of them, but worry that they lack an indepenedent political will separate from the CPA.


Yes but I prefer reading the actual statistical details of the polls (how the question was phrased, the degree of positive/negative response ... most questions are framed like somewhat better, a lot better, somewhat worse, etc.) and stuff like that. Oh well, maybe some other website will post it.


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Old Post Sep-24-2003 14:19  United States
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

let me check if my university has a subscription with them.. if so I can post that here...

Old Post Sep-24-2003 17:18  Israel
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matty
08/09 National Beach Cham



Registered: Jun 2003
Location: back in T.O

Yah thats very unfortunate. I saw an exibit here at school a while back by a Japanese photojournalist. The exibit delt with the effects of Delpeted Uranium used by US Forces in Iraq during the Gulf War. Over half a million children died since that time.

There was a sign in book so i though i'd have a look at it. Some ****** had the nerve to say "They got what they deserved!!"
No child deserves that, no matter what.

What made me come to this school, i think to myself everyday

Old Post Sep-24-2003 17:26 
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rizo
rizoholic



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: sf south bay
Re: This just breaks my heart

quote:
Originally posted by DaveSaenz
Mr. Bush needs to see this picture.
Was it worth it?
Are the people of the US any safer?
Are the people of Iraq better off?

I doubt he cares.
No.
No.
Yes and No.

Old Post Sep-24-2003 17:31 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by che
Yah thats very unfortunate. I saw an exibit here at school a while back by a Japanese photojournalist. The exibit delt with the effects of Delpeted Uranium used by US Forces in Iraq during the Gulf War. Over half a million children died since that time.

There was a sign in book so i though i'd have a look at it. Some ****** had the nerve to say "They got what they deserved!!"
No child deserves that, no matter what.

What made me come to this school, i think to myself everyday


I disagree with the over-hyped DU fears, and I think much of the disease/deformation/health hazards effecting the population have more to do with corrollary effects such as malnutrition than DU.

I actually read the extensive report the WHO conducted on DU weaponry use in Kosovo and I would tend to place more reliance on the WHO's scientific findings than most others.

http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiati...uranium_Eng.pdf

30 page report if you're interested


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Old Post Sep-24-2003 17:38  United States
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

Well I couldn't find it.. I think they have a week or month delay till they post that Gallup poll info on the service my University is using...

But how about some second hand reporting instead?

quote:

Poll finds optimism in Baghdad Two-thirds expect better life in 5 years

Patrick E. Tyler
The New York Times
404 words
24 September 2003
International Herald Tribune
3
English
Copyright (c) 2003 Bell & Howell Information and Learning Company. All rights reserved.

BAGHDAD:

After five months of foreign military occupation and the removal of Saddam Hussein, nearly two-thirds of Baghdad residents say the removal of the Iraqi dictator has been worth the hardships they have been forced to endure, a new Gallup poll shows. Despite the systemic collapse of government and civic institutions, a crime wave of looting and violence and shortages of water and electricity, 67 percent of 1,178 Iraqis told a Gallup survey team that within five years, their lives will be better than before the U.S.-led invasion. Only eight percent of those queried said they believed their lives would be worse off as a result of the military campaign to remove Saddam and his Baath Party leadership. The survey, which was conducted in late August and early September, cut across the ethnically diverse landscape of the capital. The results revealed that Iraqis in the capital still maintain a great deal of skepticism about the motives of the United States and Britain, and residents said they hold France and its president, Jacques Chirac, in higher regard than President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain. Chirac's rating was 42 percent favorable to Bush's 29 percent and Blair's 20 percent. The poll results also showed that Baghdad residents were nearly evenly divided on whether the occupation authority headed by L. Paul Bremer 3rd was doing a good job, with 28 percent giving it a positive rating and 25 percent saying it is doing a poor job, on a five-point rating scale. But half of the respondents said that the occupation authority was doing a better job now than it was two months ago, and their view of Bremer himself was remarkably positive, with 47 percent holding a favorable view of him compared to 22 percent who held an unfavorable view. On possible explanation for the improving view of the occupation authority was its decision in July to turn over significant powers to a 25-member Governing Council of Iraqis, the Gallup findings suggested. While 75 percent of those polled said that the council's actions were mostly determined by the coalition's own authorities, the interim government's performance received a favorable rating from 40 percent. Thirteen percent said it was performing poorly.


CNN:
quote:

What Do Iraqis in Baghdad Think About War, U.S. Involvement?

Carol Lin, Michael Holmes
24 September 2003
CNN: Live at Daybreak
English

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Just what do Iraqis in Baghdad think about the war and U.S. involvement there? The Gallup Polling Service asked 1,100 Baghdad residents, "Do you think ousting Saddam Hussein was worth it?" Sixty-two percent say yes, 30 percent respond no. But asked if Iraq is more dangerous or safer after the war, 94 percent say more dangerous. Gallup hired an Arabic polling firm to do the questioning. CNN did not take part.
...


NYtimes:
quote:

THE STRUGGLE FOR IRAQ: THE IRAQIS

In a Poll, Baghdad Residents Call Freedom Worth the Price

By PATRICK E. TYLER
774 words
24 September 2003
The New York Times
Late Edition - Final
16
English
(c) 2003 New York Times Company

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Sept. 23 -- After five months of foreign military occupation and the ouster of Saddam Hussein, nearly two-thirds of Baghdad residents believe that the removal of the Iraqi dictator has been worth the hardships they have been forced to endure, a new Gallup poll shows.

Despite the systemic collapse of government and civic institutions, a wave of looting and violence, and shortages of water and electricity, 67 percent of 1,178 Iraqis told a Gallup survey team that within five years, their lives would be better than before the American and British invasion.

Only 8 percent of those queried said they believed that their lives would be worse off as a result of the military campaign to remove Mr. Hussein and his Baath Party leadership from power.

The survey was conducted through face-to-face interviews from Aug. 28 through Sept. 4 across the ethnically diverse landscape of the battered capital.

The results, which have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points, showed that Iraqis in the capital still maintained a great deal of skepticism about the motives of the United States and Britain, and residents said they held France and its president, Jacques Chirac, in higher regard than President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair, who supported the American military action.

Mr. Chirac's favorability rating was 42 percent to Mr. Bush's 29 percent and Mr. Blair's 20 percent.

The poll results also showed that Baghdad residents were nearly evenly divided on whether the American-British occupation authority, headed by L. Paul Bremer III, was doing a good job running the country, with 28 percent giving it a positive rating and 25 percent saying it was doing a poor job on a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 the most positive rating.

But half the respondents said the occupation authority was doing a better job now than it was two months ago, and their view of Mr. Bremer himself was remarkably positive, with 47 percent holding a favorable view of him compared with 22 percent who held an unfavorable view.

One possible explanation for the changing view of the occupation authority was its decision in July to turn over significant powers to the 25-member Governing Council of Iraqis, the Gallup findings suggested. The council was installed by the occupation authority.

While 75 percent of those polled said the council's actions were ''mostly determined by the coalition's own authorities,'' the interim government's performance received a favorable rating from 40 percent of those polled. Thirteen percent said it was performing poorly. Forty-two percent were neither positive nor negative.

Today, the Governing Council issued a decree banning the two main Arab satellite networks, Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya, from ''covering the activities of the Governing Council'' and other official events, accusing them of inciting violence against the new Iraqi government and its officials. Audiotapes saying they were carrying the voice of Mr. Hussein and a videotape of Osama bin Laden have been broadcast on those networks.

Several members of the Governing Council told Arab and Western news organizations on Monday that the staffs of the two networks would be expelled from Iraq for a month, but that decision appeared to have been modified in the last 24 hours.

''We told them it was a dumb idea,'' said an aide to the council president, Ahmad Chalabi, who is in New York attending the United Nations General Assembly.

When the text of the decree was issued today, the council accused the Arab networks of promoting the return of the Baath Party in Iraq, promoting sectarian violence between Sunni and Shiite Muslims and inciting attacks on the government and its members.

Spokesmen for Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya denied the allegations, saying their correspondents in Iraq sought to broadcast the views of all Iraqis during a time of national crisis.

An informal sampling of Iraqis on the streets of Baghdad found more people inclined to support the government's crackdown on the Arab channels, reflecting a popular view here that the Arab leaders supported Mr. Hussein's repressive regime for too long and failed to support his removal despite evidence of widespread human rights abuses.

But some Iraqis defended the Arab networks, as Al Sahib, 33, did when he said that expelling them or restricting their coverage ''will give them a pretext to bark more and to cry with other Arab countries about there be no freedom of press in Iraq.''


Old Post Sep-24-2003 17:49  Israel
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DaveSZ
When The Levee Breaks



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: ATX

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
Dammit I need a subscription to gallup!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/focus/sr030924.asp

but this should provide the answer to your question Dave (although it only reflects baghdad's opinions, not necessarily the whole country which may have better/worse opinions)


Without reading any polls, I'm sure the Kurds are quite happy.

I am not registered on that site, so can you post what is in the restricted area for us all?

This is all that I am allowed to read:

quote:
In the first rigorous, scientifically conducted sampling of public sentiment in Iraq, residents of the country's capital say -- by a 2-to-1 margin -- that the ousting of Saddam Hussein was worth any hardships they might have personally suffered since the U.S. and British-led invasion.



Thanks.


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Old Post Sep-24-2003 20:52 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by DaveSaenz
Without reading any polls, I'm sure the Kurds are quite happy.

I am not registered on that site, so can you post what is in the restricted area for us all?

This is all that I am allowed to read:




Thanks.


Well I would if I had a subscription to gallup . $95 for a yearly subscription. I love their polls but I dunno if I love them that much. Usually I try to check their new (free) polls every day before they become archived.


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Old Post Sep-24-2003 20:55  United States
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