quote:

Opposition gains ground in Venezuela elections By Saul Hudson Saul Hudson Mon Nov 24, 2:07 pm ET CARACAS (Reuters) – Venezuela's growing opposition and President Hugo Chavez's left-wing party shared the spoils from weekend elections as they jostled for political momentum in the OPEC nation on Monday. The multi-party opposition eroded Chavez's dominance of regional politics, winning six top posts that govern over almost half of the population, although his Socialist Party took a clear majority of state races. The results make more challenging Chavez's goal of changing the law to run for reelection in 2012. The opposition defeated that move in a referendum vote last year and gained some extra ground on Sunday. In power for almost a decade, the popular anti-U.S. president won 17 of 22 states, but the opposition held onto the two states it won at the last regional elections four years ago, picked up three more and won the powerful mayoralty of the capital Caracas. Opposition candidates were helped by widespread voter complaints the government has done too little to control some of the world's worst murder rates and Latin America's highest inflation rate. The overall mixed results triggered a public relations battle as each side fought to seize the momentum by persuading Venezuelans it was the victor in an election where a high 65 percent of voters cast ballots. The outcome of the post-election tussle could determine whether Chavez has the backing to realize his reelection goal or follow through on threats to spread his nationalizations program by seizing assets from landowners or food companies. Chavez had campaigned frenetically saying his political future was at stake, and he claimed victory on Monday. "The (revolutionary) flame is stronger today," he said. "This is a great victory for the party ... and now we will focus on the task of deepening and extending our project." Still popular for spending freely on the majority poor, the man who calls former Cuban President Fidel Castro his mentor vowed to press his drive toward socialism despite plummeting income from Venezuela's main export, oil. His party said the political map was still painted the red of Chavez's self-styled revolution and that his allies tallied about 1.5 million more votes overall than the opposition. But emboldened by its second electoral advance in 12 months, the opposition celebrated that it now governs over Venezuela's most populous areas in a coastal "electoral corridor" that is often key to winning Venezuelan elections. The opposition's wins in major urban centers enhance its visibility and its chances of building credibility that it can meet voters' demands for better services such as trash collection. SPACE IN THE CENTER Leopoldo Lopez, a young star of the opposition who the government blocked from standing with legal technicalities, said the election showed Venezuelan politics had finally shifted after years of Chavez's dominance. "The main lesson from the election is that there is a sentiment of plurality among voters that is over and above the government and the opposition," he said. "We need to build an alternative for a different Venezuela that brings people together in the center." Chavez, whose military formation was in a tank division, has sought to polarize the electorate. In the campaign that he wanted to turn into a plebiscite on himself, he threatened to jail opposition leader Manuel Rosales, cut funds off to areas won by the opposition and even warned he could deploy tanks if the rich "oligarchs" beat his TV star pick in one state. Controlling the judiciary, Congress and state companies, he eavesdropped on opponents and aired their conversations on state TV hoping to embarrass them. Chavez has stripped some powers from elected officials, including authority over the police and hospitals in Caracas, and threatened to create government posts to oversee them. "This reduces the importance of the gains made by the opposition as it will make it more difficult ... to build on them to mount a serious challenge to the regime down the road," Goldman Sachs senior economist Alberto Ramos said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081124...3VEtB7XON1g.3QA

those sound more like the words of a dictorship with a democratic facade than a democracry accused of being a dictatorship.

and he's such a loveable guy, it is absurd that anyone doubts his true intentions.

Why was Manuel Rosales threatened with jail? For his involvement in the 2002 coup?

In any other country he already would be in jail!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Why was Manuel Rosales threatened with jail? For his involvement in the 2002 coup? In any other country he already would be in jail!

If it is true that he would be in jail in other countries, he would also be in jail in venezuela. given your comment, you must think Chavez is more lenient on his opposition than leaders of other countries?

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 If it is true that he would be in jail in other countries, he would also be in jail in venezuela. given your comment, you must think Chavez is more lenient on his opposition than leaders of other countries?

Are you saying it's not true that Rosales was involved in the 2002 coup?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley But of course, we on TA know that Venezuela isn't really a democracy, and that there is no legal opposition. Indeed, I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to tell me that those members of the opposition elected in those five states will be in jail soon. Yes, this is certainly proof if any were needed that Venezuela is the worst kind of dictatorship where nobody is allowed to vote and nobody is allowed to oppose the government...

They're no different than America, sir.

If there was/is a true opposition, it was put there by us, controlled by us, and funded to power by us.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Are you saying it's not true that Rosales was involved in the 2002 coup?

i don't follow venezuelan politics too much, as such, i don't really know his involvement. I am confident, however, that a leader with the personal characteristics of Hugo Chavez would have imprisoned someone that was involved in a coup against his government. Overtly power hungry politicians like Chavez don't normally give amnesty to opponents.

Hugo Chavez is a true hero. Although clearly a socialist, without any intention to make the step to full-scale communism, he is a man of his word and should be treated as a man of the people.

The Russians seem to like him, too.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/media/ALeqM5j-zkvqPAIAFXuoUJiqyBRvmSeP0g?size=m

Russian Udaloy-class Admiral Chabanenko anti-submarine vessel crewmen stand in attention on the deck as a salvo is fired.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 i don't follow venezuelan politics too much, as such, i don't really know his involvement. I am confident, however, that a leader with the personal characteristics of Hugo Chavez would have imprisoned someone that was involved in a coup against his government. Overtly power hungry politicians like Chavez don't normally give amnesty to opponents.

Well now you seem to be dismissing the fact that a coup even took place at all!!!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Well now you seem to be dismissing the fact that a coup even took place at all!!!

what the hell were your reading? I said, "i don't know his involvement [in the coup]."

quote:

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky Hugo Chavez is a true hero.

HAHA! Gotta love the irony of rolling blackouts in Venezuela since Chavez nationalized the oil industry. Chavez insisted that he had to end capitalism and install socialism in order to return Venezuela to the people. They'd appreciate it more if they could have their lights on to see it:

quote:

Despite having some of the world's largest energy reserves, Venezuela is increasingly struggling to maintain basic electrical service, a growing challenge for leftist President Hugo Chavez. The OPEC nation has suffered three nationwide blackouts this year, and chronic power shortages have sparked protests from the western Andean highlands to San Felix, a city of mostly poor industrial workers in the sweltering south. Shoddy electrical service is now one of Venezuelans' top concerns, according to a recent poll, and may be a factor in elections next month for governors and mayors in which Chavez allies are expected to lose key posts, in part on complaints of poor services. The problem suggests that Chavez, with his ambitious international alliances and promises to end capitalism, risks alienating supporters by failing to focus on basic issues like electricity, trash collection and law enforcement.

http://search.boston.com/local/Sear...y=&s.dateRange=

"The electrical grid has fallen into disrepair and Chavez' oil-burning electrical plants don't generate enough to keep it stable. Venezuelans now have to contend with third-world electrical production as well as Chavez' aspirations to be a cut-rate Fidel Castro.

In fact, Chavez has taken a page from Castro in response to the electrical crisis. Instead of spending the billions of dollars necessary to upgrade the grid and generate enough electricity for the entire nation, Chavez has built tiny microstations to provide service to small sectors of homes and businesses. Castro did the same thing in Cuba, and Hugo has proved just as effective. They generate too little electricity for too many consumers, which means they only ease the severity of the shortfall without doing anything to solve the underlying problem.

Chavez has something Castro does not... a fortune in oil revenues. What happened to all the money? Where has he put Venezuela's money? It certainly hasn't gone to infrastructure. It's likely to be going straight into Chavez' pocket, or perhaps to his friends in FARC, or to curry favor with Iran and Russia.

So far, Chavez seems intent on proving the failure of socialism. He's well on his way, but since the 20th century had been devoted to that particular lesson, it seems that the lights aren't on in more than one sense in Venezuela regardless."

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 what the hell were your reading? I said, "i don't know his involvement [in the coup]."

You said you are "confident" that someone like Chavez would have thrown anyone who attempted a coup against him in jail. None of them did go to jail (he gave them all amnesty). So either you're claiming a coup never took place (hence nobody in jail for it) or you don't have a clue about Chavez and are in no position whatsoever to be making statements about him with "confidence"