Not sure If this is the correct place to ask this. So, many appologies if this is in the wrong place or has been covered already.

I have been mixing for quite a few years now and my beat matching is pretty much perfect.

I would aslo consider myself to have a realatively good ear for determining which tunes work together nicely.

I understand that one way to obtain different effects when mixing is to programme tracks in a particualr order with keys and key changes that compliment the outgoing tracks.

In order for me to get a better understanding of the theory behind why some of my tracks work well and why some dont I would like to work out what keys the melodys and bass lines are in my tracks.

I know I could work out what key it is in by using a keybord over the top.

My question:

Is there any piece of software that can analyse either a .wav, .mp3 or the audio itself to determine what key it is in.

I have seen the service offered by Camalot sounds that lists the particular BPM and Key of thousands of tracks. However the type of music I play is often Promos and quite obscure tracks so this would be of little use to me.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Luke

___________________
Let the synergy of man be our evolution.

As far as I know, there is not cheap (meaning under $500) piece of software that will tell you that. My advise is that you look around Amazon.com etc for a book on sound or music theory. Make sure that you don't get some really advanced book, just start off with the basics, which includes harmonics.

___________________
When you dance, the DJ takes you on a journey, but he or she is usually not the focus of your experience at a club or festival or wherever you hear the music. Dancing is. Music is.

My theory isn't terrible I know a little back from my guitar lesson days.

If you know of any software or hardware that can do this please tell.

Price is irrelevent.

Thank you,

Luke

___________________
Let the synergy of man be our evolution.

Get a korg tuner ($20), and hum the first note of the bassline or melody to get the key (this is it for 98% of tracks). You can also try putting it next to your subwoofer, but this doesn't work as much.

Of course, depending on how the record is pitched, the original key may not matter. The only surefire way to find records in tune is to practice mixing with them. When you pitch a record 5% up, it's gonna be a quartertone off, so even if you mix it in with a record of the same pitch, it'll sound bad.

And the key isn't necesarily as important as the scale too in some places (which you really can only hear).

If you're spinning live, just test out the record before hand to see if it's in key. If not, swap it with something else. I see a lot of DJ's do this.

___________________
Alcoholic Alliance
The Ecstasy (MDMA) Bible Thread 2.0

quote:

Originally posted by Masonious you win again dude - and nice move shoving the whole i figured out how to order pizza thing in my face. i tried that 4 and a half months ago and woke up with a Taiwanese transvestite but to Ygrene it's just, "anoother day in the life, noooo biggieee".

Last edited by Fast Turtle on Jul-03-2003 at 20:19

does the harmonics of tracks affect weather the bass of two tracks phase/flange each other? im having trouble transitioning the bass of tracks without any noticible phasing.

___________________
Ladies and gentlemen... we are floating in space!

"If you take the simplest, crudest notion of self-consciousness, I suppose that would be the sort of self-consciousness that a lobster has: When it`s hungry, it eats something, but it never eats itself. It has some way of distinguishing between itself and the rest of the world, and it ahs a rather special regard for itself."
Daniel Dennett

Thaks very much for the advice.

Would I be correct in thinking then;

If I was to pitch all of my tracks up or down to say, for example, 140 BPM then work out which keys the music is closest to. I would be able to find tracks that would work harmonically well together.

Say i had a track that was structured around the key of C Major at 140BPM If I was to bring a new record in I could get different changes in mood if I were to say change to the relative minor key (A minor in this case) when overlaying a new melody or bassline?

I do understand that with enough practice with the same reords I will get a good natural feel for what can and cant be put together.

Im a theory man and I like to think about these thingsl.

Luke

___________________
Let the synergy of man be our evolution.

quote:

Originally posted by The Orange Man Thaks very much for the advice. Would I be correct in thinking then; If I was to pitch all of my tracks up or down to say, for example, 140 BPM then work out which keys the music is closest to. I would be able to find tracks that would work harmonically well together. Say i had a track that was structured around the key of C Major at 140BPM If I was to bring a new record in I could get different changes in mood if I were to say change to the relative minor key (A minor in this case) when overlaying a new melody or bassline? I do understand that with enough practice with the same reords I will get a good natural feel for what can and cant be put together. Im a theory man and I like to think about these thingsl. Luke

This is good in theory (C major to A minor) but....
Shift it off a few cents due to pitch changes (one record is 140 bpm and the other say 136) and it sounds not so nice.
Listen to the attached file. First part is with Am coming into CM, and the second is the same thing, with the Am part a 40 cents or so astray. Doesn't sound too pretty.

sample

So, technically, you could do harmonic mixing by key, but the records need to be really close in bpm (within 1.5% to 2% at most...) or you'll run into that effect. You could calculate what it'd be closest to as well, but 20+ cents and it starts to sound off. This isn't really useful live though because you'd be changing the pitch to match the pitch of something that maybe already be 3% off, or whatever (you could kinda guess what's it's closest to, I suppose, but you still run a large chance of it being too far off and getting it wrong).
Another thing to watch out for is stuff like accidentals and scales. Although by key it may be okay, some notes may clash badly between the two songs.

Also: Flanging? Could you maybe give us a sample? I'm not sure what you mean.

___________________
Alcoholic Alliance
The Ecstasy (MDMA) Bible Thread 2.0

quote:

Originally posted by Masonious you win again dude - and nice move shoving the whole i figured out how to order pizza thing in my face. i tried that 4 and a half months ago and woke up with a Taiwanese transvestite but to Ygrene it's just, "anoother day in the life, noooo biggieee".

Last edited by Fast Turtle on Jul-05-2003 at 05:18

great thread guys

there is no cheap hardware to do this, its just knowing your tunes really, musical knowledge is a bonus. for example, gibbo knows shite all about music theory and will openly admit it but he knows his tunes so just about all of his mixes are harmonically spot on. also you don't wanna just fuss about the key of a track, you want to think of the original bassline note, because they are the ones that are gonna come together, for example most corsten tunes start on G or A basslines, so they work well together, and it would sound putting a C bassline tune over them if you get what i mean. mind im probably wrong, but i hope u get the idea heh.

all in all, just do what sounds good and use LOTS of eq

Luke

___________________

w: www.luketerry.com

Good news guys: The latest version of Mixmeister (MM5) mixing software now includes a key detection utility. Download a FREE trial version from mixmeister.com. Although it has its limitations, you can't beat the price!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Nuclear This is good in theory (C major to A minor) but.... Shift it off a few cents due to pitch changes (one record is 140 bpm and the other say 136) and it sounds not so nice. Listen to the attached file. First part is with Am coming into CM, and the second is the same thing, with the Am part a 40 cents or so astray. Doesn't sound too pretty. sample So, technically, you could do harmonic mixing by key, but the records need to be really close in bpm (within 1.5% to 2% at most...) or you'll run into that effect. You could calculate what it'd be closest to as well, but 20+ cents and it starts to sound off. This isn't really useful live though because you'd be changing the pitch to match the pitch of something that maybe already be 3% off, or whatever (you could kinda guess what's it's closest to, I suppose, but you still run a large chance of it being too far off and getting it wrong). Another thing to watch out for is stuff like accidentals and scales. Although by key it may be okay, some notes may clash badly between the two songs. Also: Flanging? Could you maybe give us a sample? I'm not sure what you mean.

"phase/flange effect"

i think it's the effect that happens when two sounds in two different tracks cancel each other

example: i'm sure it has happenned to every single one of us...

while mixing the kickdrums of the two tracks sound so low volume, (just like their bass is cutoff) and might skip out for a sec and sound soooooo boomy (like their bass is all the way up)
and it goes like this all the time. (i hate it when it happens)
the bad thing about this is that you 're not able to know what is going to happen while beatmatching...(you can't predict if the two track will phase each other's kickdrums or not)

try this: put two copies of the same record and start them spinning at the same time, same pitch.
then you'll hear this "flange-phase" effect going on. you'll notice that skipping out one of the tracks a little off, it will change the "wide" parameter of the effect.

effect machines do exactly the same thing, only they can use more than one copy of the sound sample & change the pitch of several of them too.

i hope that is the effect you're talking about, it happens many times with other tracks

Warrior Warrior DJ HOOLIGAN REMIX Am
Taskforce Touch Me THRILLSEEKERS REMIX Am
System F The Sonnet ORIGINAL MIX Am
Goldenscan Sunrise RONSKI SPEED REMIX Am
Alizee Soft Skin STEVE HELSTRIP REMIX Am
Astura Orions Belt ORIGINAL Am
Goldenscan Of Our Times BURUFUNK REMIX Am
Matt Lamanen Flakes SLUSNIK LUNA REMIX Am
Delerium After All SVENSON & GIELEN REMIX Am
Three Drives Carrera 2 DJ MONTANA REMIX Am
Major League Wonder Where You Are ORIGINAL REMIX Am
Goldenscan Sunrise LIQUID LIFE REMIX Am
Tiesto In My Memory Am
Energy 52 Café Del Mar MARCO V REMIX Am
Indiana In My Veins ALL MIXES Am
Insigma Insigma Am
Ralphie B Vs Airbase Massive Am
Joshua Ryan WAY OUT WEST REMIX Am
Three Drives LOWTECH REMIX Am
BBE 7 DAYS AND 1 WEEK FERRY CORSTEN REMIX A#m
MARCO V SIMULATED ? REMIX A#m
Meteor seven universal music Dumonde remix A#m
Scooter Weekend A#m
System F Rock Your Body Original A#m
Remy Pumped Up Original Bm
Remy Pumped Up Mike Vandenberg remix Bm
Combined Strength Touched Greg Murray remix Bm
System F Spaceman Matti Laamanen remix Bm
Art of Trance Madagascar Domi nation remix Bm
Art of Trance Madagascar ferry corsten remix Bm
Art of Trance Madagascar Original remix Bm
Art of Trance Madagascar Kumara remix Bm
Art of Trance Madagascar Transa remix Bm
Art of Trance Madagascar Cygnus X remix Bm
Binary Finary 1998 Ronski Speed remix Bm
Matt Darey From Russia With Love Bm
Ocean Lab Beautiful Together Original mix Bm
Push Journey of Life Original mix Bm
Push Journey of Life Rank 1 mix Bm
Gouryella Ligaya FERRY CORSTEN REMIX Cm
Delerium After All VORTEX REMIX Cm
Fragma Toca Me NATIOUS REMIX Cm
Three Drives Carrera 2 SHAH & PEDRO REMIX Cm
Three Drives Greece 2000 G & M PROJECT MIX Cm
Billie Ray Martin Honey ABOVE & BEYOND REMIX Cm
Binary Finary 1999 GOURYELLA REMIX Cm
Jam X & De Leon Mind Made Up RANK 1 REMIX Cm
Eon Talk to Me ORIGINAL MIX Cm
Gouryella Gouryella ORIGINAL MIX Cm
Kate Bush & Infusion Running Up that Hill Cm
Oceanforce Euphoric Dream HEMSTOCK & JENNINGS REMIX Cm
Pet Shop Boys Home and Dry BLANK & JONES REMIX C#m
Andy Jay Powell Skyliner HIVER & HAMMER REMIX C#m
Ralphie B Massive D. RAMIREZ REMIX C#m
Tomcraft Loneliness C#m
System F Soul on Soul ORIGINAL Dm
Armin Van Buuren Song For the Ocean ORIGINAL Dm
Infusion Legacy JUNKIE XL REMIX Dm
Paul Van Dyk Feat Hemstock & Jennings Nothing But You FAITHLESS REMIX Dm
Frankie goes To Hollywood Two Tribes ROB SEARLE REMIX Dm
Cass Mind Rewind MOMU REMIX Dm
Lunatic Asylum Cabal (Energy Flow) ALL MIXES Dm
Nylon If you Love Me ROADBLOCK REMIX Dm
Rank 1 Breathing ORIGINAL Dm
Sonorous Second Sun MIRCO DE GOVIA REMIX Dm
Starkid Crayons ORIGINAL Dm
Airbase Theme from Rock ORIGINAL D#m
Coldplay Clocks PSYCLONE REMIX D#m
Kyau Vs Albert Velvet morning MIRCO DE GOVIA REMIX D#m
Paul Van Dyk Nothing But You PVD CLUB MIX D#m
PULSER MY RELIGION ORIGINAL D#m
PULSER MY RELIGION LAN REMIX D#m
SOLAR STONE SOLARCOASTER GREG MURRAY REMIX D#m
Armin Van Buuren Yet Another Day DJ Shah remix Em
Moby In My Heart Ferry Corsten remix Em
Corderoy Sweetest Dreams Greg Murray remix Em
Grayarea One for The Road Gabriel & Dresden remix Em
Jan Johnston Calling Your Name THRILLSEEKERS REMIX Em
Paul Oakenfold Starry Eyed Surprise OLIVER LIEB REMIX Em
System F Soul on Soul BARTHEZZ REMIX Em
Underworld Born Slippy WHITELABEL REMIX Fm
Kansai Remember This Night ALL MIXES Fm
Mike Shiver Feelings ALL MIXES Fm
Blank Jones The Nightfly TRANSA REMIX Fm
Energy 52 Café Del Mar SOLAR STONE REMIX Fm
Riva Suddenly RIVA REMIX Fm
Sonorous Glass Garden RONSKI SPEED REMIX Fm
Sonorous Protonic ORIGINAL Fm
Sonorous Protonic RONSKI SPEED REMIX Fm
Underworld Two Months Off KING UNIQUE SUNSPOTS VOCAL MIX Fm
Aly & Fila Eye of Horus ORIGINAL F#m
Aly & Fila Eye of Horus RONSKI SPEED REMIX F#m
Fragma Man in the Moon CLUB MIX F#m
Lost Witness Red Sun Rising LANGE REMIX F#m
Marco V Simulated TOMCRAFT REMIX F#m
Matt Laamanen Flakes FERRY CORSTEN REMIX F#m
Matt Laamanen Flakes ORIGINAL F#m
Oliver Lieb presents Smoked Metropolis F#m
Warrior If you want me ANTILLAS CLUB MIX F#m
Tears For Fears Mad World MARTIN EYERER REMIX F#m
Gouryella Tenshi CJ STONE AND KRABBA KROLL REMIX Gm
System F Together ORIGINAL MIX Gm
Delerium After all HISHAM PRESTON Gm
Delerium After all SATOSHI TOMIIE REMIX Gm
NRC Here Comes the Rain PUSH VOCAL MIX Gm
NRC Here Comes the Rain PUSH INSTRUMENTAL MIX Gm
4x4 Indigo ORIGINAL MIX Gm
Klea Tic Toc MAGIK MUZIK REMIX Gm
Nalin & Kane Beachball TALL PAUL REMIX Gm
Ralphie B Massive FILTERHEADZ REMIX Gm
Ralphie B Massive MIRCO DE GOVIA REMIX Gm
Kid Vicious Proceed OBSESSIVE REMAKE Gm
Rusch & Murray Epic ORIGINAL MIX Gm
Rusch & Murray Epic ABOVE & BEYOND REMIX Gm
Sasha Expander ORIGINAL MIX Gm
System F Cry ORIGINAL MIX G#m
Ronski Speed Iris ORIGINAL MIX G#m
Ronski Speed Iris JOHN ASKEW REMIX G#m
Three Drives Greece 2000 PLASTIC ANGEL REMIX G#m
Underworld Two Months Off JOHN CIATONE REMIX G#m
Armin Van Buuren & Airwave Slipstream ORIGINAL MIX G#m
System F Together ORIGINAL MIX G#m
Major League Wonder Where you are TRANSA REMIX G#m
Motorcycle As the Rush Comes On GABRIEL & DRESDEN REMIX G#m
Groove Park Carousel FIRE & ICE REMIX G#m
Indigo Division MOSHIC REMIx G#m
Indigo Sensacion MAIN MIX G#m

___________________

• TRACKS FOR GRAPE PICKING
• TRACKS WHEN YOU HAVE GLITTER STUCK ALL OVER YOU