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LiquidX
It's All OvA!



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: In Ur Mind
U.S. troops leave school after deadly clash with Iraqis

quote:
Central Command: Soldiers acted in self-defense

FALLUJAH, Iraq (CNN) --U.S. troops pulled out of a school in a farming community 40 miles west of Baghdad on Tuesday night, a day after their presence there sparked a deadly clash with hundreds of Iraqi protesters.

Conflicting accounts emerged about Monday night's confrontation in Fallujah that Red Cross officials said killed at least 15 civilians and wounded up to 53 others. Among the dead were three boys under the age of 11, Red Cross officials said.

The violence broke out as the demonstrators approached members of the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division -- based at the elementary school -- and demanded that they leave, according to a telecommunications engineer. (Full story)

U.S. Central Command said that the protesters fired on the soldiers with AK-47s and that the soldiers fired back in self-defense.

According to CNN's Karl Penhaul the demonstrators say that didn't occur. They say that some of their number did start throwing stones, and that is what prompted the U.S. soldiers to open fire. The engineer says that at that point "all hell broke loose." (On the Scene: Karl Penhaul)

One U.S. Army sergeant said he shot at what he saw, "and what I saw was targets. Targets with weapons, and they were going to harm me."

"It's either them or me, and I took the shot, sir, and I'm still here talking to you," he said.

A second U.S. soldier said the clash began when some protesters started throwing rocks at the soldiers and others started chanting.

"Then others joined in throwing rocks, and others brought weapons to the party," the soldier said. "Then they started firing them -- not just into the air but toward the soldiers on top of the buildings."

The confrontation reportedly went on for hours.

The situation at Fallujah is under investigation, Pentagon officials said.

U.S. military officials said they occupied the school originally because they had evidence that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein used schools to stash weapons.

Soldiers said they found no evidence that the Iraqi military stored weapons at this school, but they said they decided to stay in the building to keep control of the neighborhood. They moved in five days ago, military officials said.

Residents said U.S. soldiers had occupied the 20-classroom school for 10 days.

Two more Iraqis surrender
Meanwhile, Central Command said Tuesday two more members on its list of most-wanted Iraqis in custody.

Walid Hamid Tawfiq al-Tikriti, the former governor of Basra -- Iraq's second largest city -- surrendered to the Iraqi National Congress and representatives of the U.S. Defense Department, a spokesman for the Iraqi exile group said Tuesday.

He is 44th on the list of 55 most-wanted Iraqis and the eight of clubs in the deck of cards given to U.S. troops to help identify former regime leaders. (Cards)

Also Tuesday, Central Command announced that Iraq's former oil minister, Amir Rashid Muhammad al-Ubaydi, had surrendered Monday.

Al-Ubaydi -- the six of spades -- had been an adviser to Saddam and is No. 47 on the most-wanted list.

In an address Monday to the large Arab-American community in Dearborn, Michigan, President Bush vowed that the United States will help Iraqis create a democratic society. On Thursday, Bush is scheduled to deliver a speech aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, which has returned from the Persian Gulf.

White House officials said the president is expected to announce that the combat phase of the Iraq war has ended. (Full story)

Other developments
• The Iraqi lawyer who officials say took great risks to help with the rescue of Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch has been granted asylum in the United States. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge announced that the man, previously known only as Muhammad, has been granted asylum along with his wife and daughter. They are staying in the Washington area, a U.S. government official said. (Full story)

• Former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz has told his U.S. interrogators that he last saw Saddam on April 6 -- a day before a second U.S. attempt to kill the Iraqi leader in an airstrike, officials said Tuesday. The officials also said Aziz said he was told that U.S. Navy Capt. Michael Speicher was killed when his plane was shot down in 1991 and was never held as a prisoner in Iraq. Officials note that Aziz held this position when he still was in power. An official called it "the regime party line" and said U.S. intelligence has "no idea" whether it is true.

• Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, commander of U.S. forces in Baghdad, said Tuesday that Saddam "may be hiding in the city, but he is not in power and he will be caught." Blount said that snipers have fired upon U.S. troops in the Iraqi capital but that most of the attackers were either killed or arrested.

• U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arrived Tuesday at Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia, a day after defense sources told CNN the United States plans to reduce military operations there. (Full story, Prince Sultan Air Base) Rumsfeld, who is on a Middle East tour to discuss post-war Iraq and thank regional leaders for their support, planned to hold a town hall-style session with U.S. pilots and crews.

• Nassir Hindawi -- the man considered the father of Iraq's biological weapons program -- told CNN that he believes that program was shut down years ago -- something Saddam's regime claimed -- and that U.S. search teams are unlikely to find evidence of such weapons.

• Suspected chemical weapons material in northern Iraq was undergoing further analysis after previous tests gave conflicting results. Initial tests indicated the deadly nerve agent cyclosarin and an unspecified blister agent in a stash of 55-gallon drums, about 130 miles (208 kilometers) north of Baghdad. (Full story)

• British Prime Minister Tony Blair warned it was too early to say that Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction. "I remain confident they will be found," Blair told reporters. (Full story)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast...main/index.html


MmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMmmMMMmm .. the biggining

Old Post Apr-29-2003 21:44  Chile
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Renegade
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Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

This is the second time protesting Iraqis have been mowed down by US troops now. The troops claim they were shot at by by some of the "25 - 50 gunmen" (See here) in the crowd, but not one soldier was injured and there were some 13 protesters shot dead and 75 left injured. Either those evil Saddam lovers are really bad shots, or something's quite amiss here.

Nice to see the right to freedom of speech being upheld so vehemently though, eh?


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Old Post Apr-30-2003 04:24  Australia
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Izzy
Virtue & Vice



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: TX TA #5

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
This is the second time protesting Iraqis have been mowed down by US troops now. The troops claim they were shot at by by some of the "25 - 50 gunmen" (See here) in the crowd, but not one soldier was injured and there were some 13 protesters shot dead and 75 left injured. Either those evil Saddam lovers are really bad shots, or something's quite amiss here.

Nice to see the right to freedom of speech being upheld so vehemently though, eh?


taken from your article
quote:

But others said the incident may have started over rumors the American troops were using night-vision goggles to look at Arab women.

sorry but i just had to laugh

btw just because no soldier was injured doesnt mean the protesters weren't shooting. what intentions would an american soldier have to shoot at a peaceful protest?


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Old Post Apr-30-2003 05:42 
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Renegade
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Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Well it seems to me that if that crowd was truly intent on causing injury to the American troops - especially if they were as heavily armed as the troops assert - I don't think they would have had much problem doing so. It just strikes me as rather odd that if the crowd was such a threat that the US forces would be able to effect 88 casualties without getting so much as a scratch themselves.

So why would the troops fire on the crowd then? You're guess is as good as mine I think.


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Old Post Apr-30-2003 06:33  Australia
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Renegade
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Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Bloody hell, they've done it again! They've shot at a crowd protesting the shootings 48 hours earlier!

http://www.albawaba.com/news/index....lang=e&dir=news

Two more dead - what the hell is going on over there?


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Old Post Apr-30-2003 08:48  Australia
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sifntj0r
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: brisvegas

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
Bloody hell, they've done it again! They've shot at a crowd protesting the shootings 48 hours earlier!

http://www.albawaba.com/news/index....lang=e&dir=news

Two more dead - what the hell is going on over there?


they're needlessly mowing down innocent bystanders in a plot to rid iraq of saddam supporters. i also heard they're purposely targetting children under the age of 10, and women with newborns in their arms.




sorry, i just had to extrapolate your dramatic approach to the thread without good reason.


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Old Post Apr-30-2003 09:01  Australia
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Renegade
____________/



Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

quote:
Originally posted by sifntj0r
they're needlessly mowing down innocent bystanders in a plot to rid iraq of saddam supporters. i also heard they're purposely targetting children under the age of 10, and women with newborns in their arms.




sorry, i just had to extrapolate your dramatic approach to the thread without good reason.


Ah, the man with the wit sharp enough to shave with..... how you brighten my day.


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Old Post Apr-30-2003 09:44  Australia
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cougar23
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI

I guess you could say that this isn't surprising. The Pentagon is probably really embarrassed that the Iraqis aren't embracing our "freedom." They want to establish fear into anyone who wants to protest in an effort to get rid of them. It's a common government tactic used by all totalitarian regimes: China, Iraq, USSR....

I somehow wonder why Bush talks so much about democracy, yet every decision his posse makes seems to steer this country away from it. That and colonial Iraq...


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Old Post Apr-30-2003 12:03  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade
Well it seems to me that if that crowd was truly intent on causing injury to the American troops - especially if they were as heavily armed as the troops assert - I don't think they would have had much problem doing so. It just strikes me as rather odd that if the crowd was such a threat that the US forces would be able to effect 88 casualties without getting so much as a scratch themselves.

So why would the troops fire on the crowd then? You're guess is as good as mine I think.


Hmmmm you would think that if the Iraqi army were truly intent on causing injury to American troops, especially as heavily armed as they supposedely were, that they would have no problem doing so ... it just strikes me as rather odd that the US forces would be able to effect the defeat of the entire Iraqi army without getting so much as a scratch ...


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Last edited by occrider on May-01-2003 at 00:24

Old Post May-01-2003 00:07  United States
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by cougar23
I guess you could say that this isn't surprising. The Pentagon is probably really embarrassed that the Iraqis aren't embracing our "freedom." They want to establish fear into anyone who wants to protest in an effort to get rid of them. It's a common government tactic used by all totalitarian regimes: China, Iraq, USSR....

I somehow wonder why Bush talks so much about democracy, yet every decision his posse makes seems to steer this country away from it. That and colonial Iraq...


THe country is proceeding towards democracy as fast as it can happen. They can't just leave Iraq and open up a power vacumn that would result in a fight for the many ethnic groups to sieze power. In as much that people were being impatient that the war wasn't over in the second week, patience is required in the transition to a fully functioning Iraqi government. Stuff like this doesn't sprout up overnight. Time will tell how it turns out.


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Old Post May-01-2003 00:28  United States
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cougar23
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
THe country is proceeding towards democracy as fast as it can happen. They can't just leave Iraq and open up a power vacumn that would result in a fight for the many ethnic groups to sieze power. In as much that people were being impatient that the war wasn't over in the second week, patience is required in the transition to a fully functioning Iraqi government. Stuff like this doesn't sprout up overnight. Time will tell how it turns out.


Oh, I know, I was more referring to activities at home, such as giving government institutions unconstitutional powers, loading his cabinet with extremists when he didn't even get the popular vote, packing the courts with far-right wing judges, etc...

Oh...and chastizing public debate as being unpatriotic. That's anti-democracy, and I'll be glad when he's gone.


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Old Post May-01-2003 01:12  United States
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Izzy
Virtue & Vice



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: TX TA #5

quote:
Originally posted by occrider
THe country is proceeding towards democracy as fast as it can happen. They can't just leave Iraq and open up a power vacumn that would result in a fight for the many ethnic groups to sieze power. In as much that people were being impatient that the war wasn't over in the second week, patience is required in the transition to a fully functioning Iraqi government. Stuff like this doesn't sprout up overnight. Time will tell how it turns out.

you're right. lets not forget what happened to russia, the sudden collapse of communism and quick insertion of democratic capitolism lead to a corrupt and unskilled government the led the country to even worse misery then before. if a slower approach was taken during transition i bet a more stable government would have been achieved.


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Old Post May-01-2003 06:56 
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > U.S. troops leave school after deadly clash with Iraqis
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