.. I know this is for big time flaming, but thank you Bush for throwing YEARS of diplomacy to the garbage, nice JOB!

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

You might want to aim you thank you toward French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder!

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"If we are to achieve greatness in life, we must live as though we were never going to die" - ?

I don't think there will be a Cold War, unless the US attacks a european country, or vise versa. Other thing that might spark something is the US not selling Iraqui petroleum to those nations as a way to punish them ( this is when I wonder, does US really have the right to do so?!!? .. and why?!? just for opposing?!? )

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

quote:

I don't think there will be a Cold War, unless the US attacks a european country, or vise versa.

A cold war is a war with no direct fighting between the countries involved.
A cold war often involves countries with different ideologies (e.g. USA capitalist and USSR communist).
A war of mistrust, spying, propaganda and deception.

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"If we are to achieve greatness in life, we must live as though we were never going to die" - ?

Mmmmm well, propaganda is a big Issue here in the United States, and in the last couple of months there's been lots of controversy because of it. Also, I do remember when the US sent out spies to spy on each nation that had a voting right in the UN and those pending UN nations. Thought I doubt that could start something. Mistrust, mmm everything can be avided with deplomacy, unless some arse is big time bully tours it.

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

I think the LAST thing any side wants is a REAL war. When I think of reasons that EU countries would want military equipment, threatening the United States doesn't top my list at all.

Don't forget that it was the United States who set this "pre-emptive war" precedent in the post WWII era, the door is open...

I have neither the time nor inclination to reply properly to this post right now, it's too early in the morning for me , however this is a good topic, nice one trinity, and I'll reply later today when I've had me some sleep!

Trinity, great thread! I haven't posted in this forum for a while, but I've been so disgusted by this that I am compelled to at least denounce it.

quote:

Originally posted by trintiy The European Union demonstrated its determination to become a major military power today when its leading members signed a $23 billion contract to buy a fleet of 180 Airbus A400 military transport jumbo jets, with the capacity to deploy up to 20,000 troops far beyond Europe's shores in a single airlift. The move is a dream come true for French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, who since breaking with Washington over Iraq have vowed to create a power to rival the United States. Last month's Franco-German-Belgian summit that called for an EU military capability distinct from NATO, and with its own intelligence, staff and logistics arms, and a separate headquarters from NATO, has revived American concerns. Add this row to the fall-out from Iraq and you have the beginnings already of the divisions that we wanted to get rid of when the Cold War finished." The Airbus contract gives the EU the capability to become a global strategic actor in its own right, in a way that could worry the United States in regions where American and European policies differ, as they did over Iraq.

I think this is utterly, utterly pathetic. This just shows how people will always, always make the same stupid mistakes over and over again. Too bad that today, the potential exists to destroy the world over humanity's stupidity.

Those European leaders who "vowed to create a power to rival the United States" should rather spend their time, money, and effort on mending US-World relations rather than doing such a stupid thing as military buildup.

Hasn't anyone learned that war is NOT the answer? No offence to the US, but even though Bush hasn't learned that lesson so far (tongue-in-cheek), at least France and Germany, heavily affected by WWII, have learned it by now?? How many world wars must everyone go through before humanity throws its hands up in desperation and cries, "Enough is enough!!!" Or maybe it will be too late by then.

EDIT: I just hope that this is all merely due to hurt pride over the Iraq affair, and that things won't seriously develop. In any case, the anti-war movement in Europe is pretty strong so I doubt any real offensives or major buildups will ever get off the ground.

Key word here being: hope.

Then again, Nationalism might just raise its ugly head once more...

wow, modern leaders are barbaric. i guess they think that the best strategy is to fight fire with fire. i find it sickening.

airbus A400's aren't nothing compared to what america has in heavy airlift compacities. i really don't think this is a 'build' up to another cold war, but rather the EU just creating it's first intial steps towards rapid air deployment; a capability russians and american's had for nearly three decades.

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You need people like me!!! You need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers, and say 'that's the bad guy!' So, what dat make you? Good? You're not good; you just know how to hide. Howda lie. Me, I don't have that problem.

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trinity i have a vague feeling that you're posting articles from the same news agency, one that portrays everyone not pro-american as devil or so

the europeans wanting to build an european army?!?! such old news my friend, they wanted to do that right after WW2 to prevent the Soviets to invade. But the US was always there to give incentives not to do so and created NATO, etc etc etc its a really long story.

Even in the 90s Germans and French started the integration of both their armies. Europe always wanted to have a strong army so they can have a word to say in international events...

your article takes something that started in the past and makes it relative to something that just happened (France and Germany disagreeing with the US) to portray those 2 countries as bad and what not

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