quote:

Iraq war allies face tough questions on weapons McKiernan: 'It's important to prove Saddam Hussein is dead' LONDON, England (CNN) --Leading U.S. allies in the war against Iraq are facing tough questions over whether they exaggerated Baghdad's weapons of mass destruction capability. British Prime Minister Tony Blair faced a stormy House of Commons Wednesday, and pressure has mounted after suggestions that his office amended intelligence reports to strengthen the argument for war. Blair has denied the allegations. (Full story) In Spain, where, like Britain, there was widespread antiwar sentiment before the military campaign, Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar was asked to explain in parliament what has happened to the much-vaunted but still unfound weapons of mass destruction. (Full story) Similar questions are being asked in Washington, where an American intelligence official said the CIA plans to give lawmakers the data U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell used for a prewar presentation on Iraq's arms to the United Nations. (Full story) The state of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program and Baghdad's attempts to hide it from U.N. weapons inspectors were among the key reasons put forward by the United States and its allies when pressing the case for war. One inquiry already has been set up into how the British government presented intelligence data. Blair said Wednesday the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee will conduct a second inquiry, but it would be done in secret by a panel appointed by Blair. Debate focuses on a government dossier in September that said Iraq could launch chemical or biological attacks within 45 minutes. Spanish opposition Socialist Party spokesman Felix Albertos said: "The U.S. and British governments are under scrutiny to prove the existence of these weapons, and Aznar could save them a lot of trouble if he would just produce the evidence here." (Full story) Opposition parties recently have sporadically questioned Aznar in various parliamentary sessions about weapons of mass destruction. But the Socialists' plan to demand a parliamentary session dedicated exclusively to Iraq's weapons is a first. Some U.S. lawmakers also have complained that no proof of weapons of mass destruction has been found in Iraq. Powell and other top officials have said proof of the weapons will be uncovered but that it might take time. Saddam: Wanted dead or alive Meanwhile, a U.S. general in Baghdad said Wednesday that finding out whether Saddam Hussein is dead or on the run is a primary goal for coalition forces. Lt. Gen. David McKiernan, head of the 3rd U.S. Army, said that soldiers are looking for evidence of Saddam's death while searching through the rubble of destroyed buildings. "It's important to prove Saddam Hussein is dead, not just gone," he said. If the Iraqi people could be told for certain that Saddam is dead it would help cut the "fear factor," among the population, he said. Other developments • About 4,000 troops from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division are being moved from Baghdad to Fallujah -- which continues to be a stronghold of Iraqi resistance, U.S. military officials said Tuesday. The larger force will use its 88 tanks and 44 Bradley fighting vehicles to establish an increased presence on Fallujah's streets, officials said, and comes after a series of attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq in recent days. • Seven U.S. soldiers were injured overnight in separate attacks in Iraq, U.S. military officials told CNN Wednesday. Three soldiers were injured in Bayji and four in the Baghdad area. All of the attacks occurred during security patrols or when convoys were moving through the area. None of the injuries required medical evacuation. • British soldiers in the Black Watch Battalion are facing questions about the deaths of two Iraqi prisoners, the British Defense Ministry confirmed Wednesday. A ministry spokeswoman said an investigation is under way after the Iraqis died last month at a detention center in the southern Iraqi city of Basra. Additional probes have begun in two other incidents, according to the Defense Ministry. (Full story) • Bush administration officials testified before a Senate panel Wednesday that Iraq's oil production is now about 800,000 barrels per day and is expected to rise to about 1.5 million barrels per day later this summer, about 40 percent of its top pre-war output. Production will increase to 2.5 million barrels per day by year's end. At that rate, Iraq could receive between $14 billion and $15 billion per year in gross revenues depending on world oil prices. • The cost estimate for maintaining U.S. forces in Iraq through the end of the year is about $40 billion. But other countries are stepping up to defray some of the costs, Undersecretary of Defense Dov S. Zakheim testified Wednesday. Zakheim said a number of nations are helping defray the costs including: $150 million in emergency humanitarian aid pledged by Japan; $26 million, including 100,000 metric tons of wheat, plus agricultural expertise paid by Australia; and $338 million in humanitarian assistance from Britain.

.. I think we are starting to see the beginning of the this heated/to come debate about what was done, and what hasen't, and what should have/ and was not supposed to happen.

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

(Addressing this to the topic at hand and to the forum in general, Not To You Specifically, LiquidX, please do not be offended)

Boo hoo...no one cares anymore!!

Seriously, one has to realize at one point, that society is so messed up, no one will even care about the WMD situation at all very soon. In fact no one really cares now. When I say "no one" I mean the masses. Spoon-fed by your friendly neighbourhood mega-media-conglomerate-empire (no names here), people's attention are incredibly short, and easily diverted. This phenomenon is not restricted to one country, but like a cancer, has spread throughout the globe.

The "Iraq situation" will, very soon, leave the international arena of attention and take up its permanent residence in the dusty books of history, to be forgotten by everyone, just as all other incidents like it have done in the past. It's a vicious cycle that never seems to end.

Haha, it's funny...reading all these "Where are the WMD's???" when Bush and all his aides (cronies ) are just laughing at the general ignorance of the populace. Hell they are even openly admitting the entire WMD thing was a sham. Stop and think about this for one second. Can't you see that this is nothing short of a total insult towards the intelligence of everyone? And where is the UN now? Is it crying out, "Lo! We've been wronged!" ? Is it demanding an explanation from America, or from Bush? No! Beaten totally into submission, all that the UN can do now is grovel at the feet of the Real Master and hope to get a tiny piece of the "action" that is left, thereby saving any scrap of its credibility that remains - i.e. "rebuilding Iraq."

It's funny because I know, sooner or later, you're all going to realize this. Putting it more blatantly, nothing now can, nor will it ever, be able to be done about all this until people WAKE UP. Unfortunately this is so unlikely to happen that it isn't even funny.

The only thing to do, then, is to pretty much just accept this. I think that things have always been like this. Every generation, people lament, "Oh how the world is messed up!" and long for the "good old days." Likewise, there is the worry that "man has truly gone mad." Really, this is nothing new. Go read any literature from history. They will all be complaining about the things I've mentioned. Also read Machiavelli. He will, at least, give you concrete concepts and enough proof for you to see that man is always the same, and that this kind of thing has always happened before. Some of the best victories and greatest princes (in his terms) have thrived on deception and the ignorance of the people, not to mention "evil means," fraud, and force. Later they are praised as "Great Men." It's all a matter of perspective.

So all that is left to be done is to just accept it all. Who cares? If things will always be this way, what's the point in worrying about it? Might as well just laugh at the stupidity. It's what I'm doing. Just look at the entire Middle East fiasco. Quite hilarious. Good comedy, to laugh at mankind.

Last edited by Alccode on Jun-06-2003 at 04:04

LoL so true, sucks for those that lost their close ones though.. thats the only thing that bothers me besides heaving each one of us pay for the stupidity done. Anyways, you are right, theres nothing one can do about it, except for VOTING RIGHT!

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

Bullshit! there is lots that can be done about it. I agree, that the world population in general is in a state of apathy, and always has been. I agree that it's pathetic. I emphatically do NOT agree that there is nothing that we can do about it.

What if nobody had done anything about hitler? You'd be telling me right now (in german) "So, millions of jews died, no big deal, nothing i can do, HEIL!"

I don't see how you can say "nothing now can, nor will it ever, be able to be done about all this until people WAKE UP" and then shortly after "Who cares? If things will always be this way, what's the point in worrying about it?"

I for one am awake, i don't know about you. I will fight this as much as i can, and other injustices as well. Apathy may be popular, but that doesn't mean it's the only option.

@LiquidX nice post man.

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completely agree vesa, very intelligent post.

The boycott is already in progress:

quote:

Because I am one of the millions of people against the war; And because the American government has made it clear that it won’t listen to world opinion; And because the symbols of American power are its corporations and their brands; I hereby pledge to boycott Brand America, from the moment the war begins and to the best of my ability until the empire learns to listen.

To find out more and sign the pledge, visit http://www.adbusters.org.

you are very correct though, it depends on the anti war camps ability to be true to themselves, and not buy american. Personally, i try my best, but it's imperfect.

The OS i am using: Microsoft Windows
The CPU of the computer: an intel pentium III
The browser I am entering this into: Microsoft Internet Explorer
Sitting beside me on my desk: A Sony MD player, a bottle of sprite, ome scotties tissue (don't ask :P), a lavalamp.
On my feet: a pair of Vans shoes
In my wallet: a safeway card, an airmiles card, a visa card et al. A royal bank card.
My boss: a supporter of the "liberals" of British Columbia, probably the most supportive political party in canada of bush.

In some way, all of these things supports america, directly or indirectly. What are my options?

stop using computers(or move up in the woods and learn linux)

make sure my computer is powered by AMD (the only other real choice, which is probably still an american company i imagine)

Change browsers to opera(which does not always display sites properly)

Throw away my nice skate shoes, go down to the pawnshop, buy some no name sandals or whatever(that will probably wear out, hurt my feet etc.)

Also, get rid of my MD player, with it's anticopyright protection sponsored by the RIAA and big buisness of the US.

Stop buying food from safeway(cheapest place to get food here), forget about the hundreds of airmiles i have saved up, cancel my VISA card (thereby meaning i can no longer buy vinyl or DJ), in fact close my bank account alltogether, and simply barter for goods and services

Quit my job, ensuring i have no money whatsoever, thereby marginalizing and silencing my voice, to all but the most compassionate of street passersby who listen to my ranting about the US war machine as i sit on the street penniless and shoeless. until i die, friendless and alone with not even enough money to inscribe my eulogy of distate for american corporations on my tombstone.

reality check. No, i cannot do that, and even if i did, i would be further from my goal anyway.

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at the end of the day america will just say they need more time to look for weapons forver or if theres a lot of pressure theyll just plant some and say lookwe found em i seriously think they would do that if it jusitified the war

quote:

Originally posted by gibbo at the end of the day america will just say they need more time to look for weapons forver or if theres a lot of pressure theyll just plant some and say lookwe found em i seriously think they would do that if it jusitified the war

by the way, some PUNCTUATION in your post might be helpful!!

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

oh god u have some mental defective problem putting pictures like that up grow up and its nearly four in the morning if my posts lack punctuation well i'm tired and so my english isn't brilliant also anyone who would notice that again i will point out is an absolute loser and has nothing better to say.

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 by the way, some PUNCTUATION in your post might be helpful!!

by the way, some BRAINS in your fucking head might be fucking helpful, m'kay.

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Gibbo: The reason i use these pictures is because I think they are humorous and appropriate. The point i was trying to make was that your post was something so obvious and outdated in nature that it deserved my reply. If you would like to debate the topic with me, please go ahead. I enjoy a good debate.

joeh152: Are you gibbo's yes-man? it would seem so. I hope that you feel proud that you made that post. I have more brains in my head that you could ever hope to possess.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

quote:

Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 joeh152: Are you gibbo's yes-man? it would seem so. I hope that you feel proud that you made that post. I have more brains in my head that you could ever hope to possess.

I believe you have brain stem function - not much more.

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quote:

Originally posted by joeh152 I believe you have brain stem function - not much more.

obviously i do have more. the abiility to log on to my account here at TA, read your posts and reply to them (typing - fine motor skill) and then click my mouse button show I do indeed possess more than brain stem function. Then, I also have the ability to read your posts and laugh at you.

___________________

It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine