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NYCTrancefan
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: New York City in a Café del Mar mood
Israelis and Palestinians-Saudi peace initiative: Arab states to absorb refugees

Since all Israelis and Palestinians always seem to be at each others throats even on the forum, what do you make of this purported peace plan put forth by the Saudis. @ http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/386411.html

"According to a new peace initiative being prepared by Arab states, Israel will negotiate a peace agreement with all the Arab states, and not just with the Palestinians, and Arab states would absorb Palestinian refugees.

The Kuwaiti newspaper Al Siyasa reported Saturday that the initiative, led by Saudi Arabia, would include "declarations of peace agreements between all Arab states," which will bring an end to the conflict between Israel and the Arabs. The states would declare a normalization in their ties with Israel, including the appointment of ambassadors.

The Arab states will demand that Israel withdraw to its borders prior to the June 1967 war, in other words, to leave the Palestinian territories and withdraw from the Golan Heights.

The initiative also includes a "creative solution" for the problem of Palestinian refugees, which is one of the most serious issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

According to the plan, some two million Palestinian refugees would be allowed to return to the new Palestinian state that would be established. More than two million others would be absorbed by other Arab states, and will be compensated for the suffering they had endured.

The Arab countries would open their gates to the refugees on the condition that their number won't exceed 10 percent of the existing population.

Under the deal, Iraq will also accept Palestinian refugees. Israel will not be required to absorb any Palestinian refugees.

The new Arab initiative, led by Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah, was presented last week at the U.S. State Department. It would be brought for approval at a summit of Arab League leaders to be held in Tunisia in March.

Egypt, Jordan, Morocco and probably Qatar are the main supporters of the plan. The plan is based on a prior peace initiative presented by Saudi Arabia, and which approved in a summit held in Lebanon in 2002. According to the previous Saudi plan, Arab states would recognize Israel's right to exist in peace, and will hold ties with it if it withdraws to the pre-1967 war lines."

------ I guess you have to start somewhere, the question then becomes who returns to Palestine, who goes to other Arab countries and compensated, but seems to make some sense, since I could never see Israel allowing the return of Palestinian refugees into Israel proper as part of any peace settlement, be it this one or not. Certainly gives many of those who use the Palestinian cause as their rallying point in other countries in the Arab world an opportunity to help directly. We shall see. Meanwhile Ariel Sharon might indeed be indicted in the bribery scandal, according to the prosecutor of the case he is inclined to lean towards prosecuting the PM as the attorney-general believes should be the case.


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Old Post Jan-25-2004 04:28  United States
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Yoepus
Neo-condimist



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Ketchup fields, Texas

I think this is a PR stunt plain and simple.

As for the plan itself, its a good plan, but it lacks one thing: Trust

The Israelis aren't simply going to give in to pre-1967 demands do to some promise that the Arabs will normalize realtions.

The Arabs must build good-will gestures to gain trust with in Israel and its populace, if say the Crown Price of Saudia Arabia were to perhaps visit the Knesset, as well as the 22 other Arab leaders, including the Prime Minister of Syria this could be a serious offer. But until the Arabs are serious about it, I don't see any reason why we should be...


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Old Post Jan-25-2004 05:47  Israel
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Izzy
Virtue & Vice



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: TX TA #5

quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
I think this is a PR stunt plain and simple.

The Arabs must build good-will gestures to gain trust with in Israel and its populace, if say the Crown Price of Saudia Arabia were to perhaps visit the Knesset, as well as the 22 other Arab leaders, including the Prime Minister of Syria this could be a serious offer. But until the Arabs are serious about it, I don't see any reason why we should be...


i agree, the nature these proposals come about are anything less then formal. instead of coming through a back door US state department presentation, why is there no formal jesture and direct talk with the israelis themselves. It seems like these initiatives are put out there and left to hang instead of being actively persued in the manners yoepus mentions. i truly do wish this will be serious this time around becuase i geniunely think that this is the way to go and everyone will benifit from this kind of peace


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Old Post Jan-25-2004 21:17 
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VanFleet
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2003
Location:

The Arab dictatorships, of which makes up 100% of their goverments, NEEDS hatred of Israel to distrct their masses from their true oppressors - themselves.

Arabs CANNOT make peace with Israel. Without Israel to blame for all the death, poverty, destruction, misery, and oppression across Islam, who will the Islamic people blame?

Check out whats said in the Saudi media.
http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/saudi_as_evil.asp

Evil Jews "O God, support the mujahidin for the sake of the triumph of your religion and the elevation of your word everywhere. O God, support them in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya. O God, support the mujahidin in Palestine. O God, deal with the tyrant Jews for they are within your power. O God, we ask You to face them and spare us their evils. O God, whoever wishes us and Muslims evil, busy him with himself and make his plotting destroy him."...

Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabia TV1, official television station of the Saudi Government, broadcast of live sermon by Shaykh Husayn al-Shaykh from the holy mosque in Mecca, August 30, 2002**

Cartoon from The Arab News, Saudi English language daily online version, July 30, 2002, shows a Jew, depicted as a traditional anti-Semitic caricature, shooting at a child
"O God, support our brother mujahidin for your sake everywhere. O God, grant them victory in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya. O God, deal with the aggressor Jews and all aggressive infidels. O God, deal with them for they are within your power."

Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabia TV1, official station of the Saudi Government, broadcast of live sermon by Shaykh Abd-al-Rahman al-Sudays from the holy mosque in Mecca, July 19, 2002 **

"O God, destroy the tyrant Jews. O God, deal with the Jews and their supporters. O God destroy them for they are within your power."

Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabia TV1, official station of the Saudi Government, broadcast of live sermon by Shaykh Usamah bin-Abdallah Khayyat from the holy mosque in Mecca, July 12, 2002 **

"It is natural that the world's people look at this minority which lives within itself with suspicion and prudence for its introversion towards itself and the lack of bridges between them and the others. This introversion includes different phenomenon as living in closed neighborhoods, surrounded by high walls or fences. It includes also the establishment of social relations, as marriage, with other people. The Jew closes himself, refuses to abandon its bygone language, its tradition and customs, in order to become an isolated phenomenon. But since the modern societies in the west are zealous about this extinct phenomenon, it enables the Jew to do what he does, and to always find someone who protects him and helps him, even if it means the annihilation of all of a people in order to take its place".

Ar-Riyadh, Saudi government daily, article entitled "The Security Fence!" by Jihad Fadel, July 11, 2002

"O God, help our weak brothers in Palestine score victory over the usurper Jews. O God, destroy the Jews, who have gone too far in their tyranny, corruption, and aggression. O God, shake the ground under them, instill fear in their hearts, and make them a prey for Muslims."

Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabia TV2 in Arabic, official television station of the Saudi Government, broadcast of live sermon by Shayk Salah al-Budayr from the holy mosque in Medina, June 28, 2002 **

In an interview on a television station backed by a Saudi prince a three year old girl was questioned. "Are you familiar with the Jews?" Amer, the interviewer asks. The girl says yes, and says she does not like them "because…they're apes and pigs." "Who said so?" the anchor asks. "Our God," the girl replies, adding that Allah says this "in the Quran."

Fox News.com, "Saudi Broadcasts Promote Anti-Semitism, Martyrdom" by Amy C. Sims, June 15, 2002

"O God, the Jews have transgressed all limits in their tyranny. O God, shake the ground under their feet, pour torture on them, and destroy all of them."

Riyadh Kingdom of Saudi Arabia TV2, official television station of the Saudi Government, broadcast of sermon by Shaykh Abd-al-Bari al-Thubayti, June 7, 2002

"The murderer, Ariel Sharon, will be welcomed in the US, on Monday 6/5/2002, with a bay crown made by the American congress, since a couple of days before his arrival (3/5/2002), two decisions were made, supporting Israel in the Middle East struggle, based (on the claim) that '(Israel) is fighting terror' as the US does. Both decisions were made by the member of the Zionist Council of Elders, Joseph Lieberman…"

Ar-Riyadh, Saudi government daily, quoting Dr. Fawzi al-Asmar in an article entitled "A Criminal is Welcomed With a Bay Crown," May 6, 2002

In an article dealing with the Internet media, the writer reports on an internet "chatroom" conversation: "…and then the debate flared up, when one of them presented what he called 'the Christian world's dissemblance to the Jews', as they killed the Messiah, upon him be peace, and their role in the church's destruction and division. He mentioned the annoying fact about their role in the two World Wars' ignition, which destroyed millions of lives, a big part of them are Christians. And then he said that today they (Jews) are exploding the Church of the Nativity's gate in front of the world…."

Ar-Riyadh, Saudi government daily, quoting Dr. Fayez ash-Shuhri in an article entitled "Even the Internet Defeats Sharon," April 17, 2002

"Can someone in the world convince us with those slogans … after the American regime seeds (in the world) the uglier kinds of injustice, oppression and separation in the name of defending international interests, while it defends the most famous terrorist regime and the most famous terrorist, whose name is Sharon? How does America want the world to be convinced with its actions against terror, while it supports it in Palestine?"

Ar-Riyadh, Saudi government daily, quoting Dr. Haya 'Abed al-'Aziz al-Muni' in an article entitled "The American History is Written by a Palestinian Child," March 20, 2002

"I don't believe that the [Sept. 11] attack on America was perpetrated by Bin-Laden or the Muslims. I think differently. I believe it was a scheme."

"What is happening now is a continuation of an ancient attack. It is a continuation of the Jewish deception and the Jewish-Zionist wickedness which infiltrates the US... I am surprised that the Christian US allows the brothers of apes and pigs [meaning the Jews] to corrupt it."

"[The Jews] have murdered the prophets and the messengers. They are the most despicable people who walked the land and are the worms of the entire world. They are all evil. And why? Because they are deceiving and plotting aggressors...."

"The Jews do not respect Jesus, the son of Mary. America should know who the Jews truly are. The Jews see Jesus as someone born from prostitution, while he is the noble prophet of Allah, and his mother, peace be upon her, is pure...."

"Jewish fingerprints have infiltrated the US. Jewish evil and deception are those who attacked the US. Osama Bin-Laden fought against the opposing falsehood and oppression that is generated by the evil and deceptive Jewish-Zionism...."

"They want to rid the world of Islam. They don't want Islam to ever have a revival. Osama Bin-Laden removed oppression; even Muslims came back to their belief and their religion. He did not present a distorted picture of Islam to the West. Quite the contrary; reading about Islam became more popular in the West."

"Westerners read about the morality of the Prophet Mohammed, his beliefs and his values. They read about Islam, not about terrorism...."

"The American people is a people that is being led by the media and TV culture. If a wicked Jewish crook begins saying that the Muslims are oppressors, it has an influence on the Americans."

"The media in America is in the hands of the Jews and behind it are the Jewish Zionists' despicable fingerprints that change reality. They have even deceived the Christians about their own religion."

"Did you know that the person who forged the Christian religion is a Jew?"

"The Muslims have mercy on the Christians more than they have on the Jews. Bin-Laden defended the oppressed. We warn the US and advise it to get rid of the Jews."

Al-Jazeera Talk Show quoting Abdullah Bin-Matruk Al-Haddal, a preacher from the Ministry of Islamic Affairs in Saudi Arabia, January 22, 2002*

Old Post Jan-26-2004 04:30  United States
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