quote:

Originally posted by imokruok This woman was apparently well-off with a family, and still chose to blow herself up for the local death cult. Yeah, they're all 'oppressed poor.' It's the perfect illustration of Golda Meir's famous quote: "We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."

Oh yes...palestinians are having a blast in the west bank and Gaza... they really love their lives...they are free and happy people!

See... this lady just goes to show that many palestinians arent oppressed, she exemplifies the whole population..theyre all crazy!

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Originally posted by Cyrus King See... this lady just goes to show that many palestinians arent oppressed, she exemplifies the whole population..theyre all crazy!

Finally we agree on something


haha j/k.. don't you just hate it when ppl misinterpert sarcasm?

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oppression of the people as a whole is just as much a factor as the oppression of the individual. Many Palestinians, althought come from well to do families, wish to fight for their land. (Not that I'm justifying suicide bombings against Israeli civilians).

This suicide attack was against soldiers. It is legitimate.

On a side note, I've been to that particular Israeli crossing between Israel and Gaza at the north. I need to pass through the Erez checkpoint every time I wanted to go to the West Bank. I wasn't allowed but I was able to get a permit from connections within the PA. The last time I was there, a lady soldier made us go back about a one hour drive to Gaza City to get my sister's passport, which was the first time we needed it, previously we didn't, she could just pass under my mother's ID card.

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Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

quote:

Originally posted by Palestinian On a side note, I've been to that particular Israeli crossing between Israel and Gaza at the north. I need to pass through the Erez checkpoint every time I wanted to go to the West Bank. I wasn't allowed but I was able to get a permit from connections within the PA. The last time I was there, a lady soldier made us go back about a one hour drive to Gaza City to get my sister's passport, which was the first time we needed it, previously we didn't, she could just pass under my mother's ID card.

Well I guess you understand why they have these obnoxiously strict boarder crossing rules, its because incident like that which has happened and because people life yourself think...

quote:

This suicide attack was against soldiers. It is legitimate.

Don't expect it to become any easier to cross such a checkpoint in the future.

And legitimate all depends on your definition, the suicide attack against the soldiers yesteray is clearly "illegimate" according to all rules of law that we morally try to assume as an international community. I know the Palestinians have not signed the Geneva convention, but that would then again not give them the accuasation to say it was "legal" (as they ahve no legal/law document for war) but they could say it was "necessary".

You mind telling me how the violation of civilian neutrality to target the enemy is a legitimate tactic under the laws of war?

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Civilian neutrality is BS. Look at most of europe during the second world war. Look at vietnam, iraq etc. If someone was taking my land you better believe i'd make them pay for it if they wanted it. I too abhore suicide attacks, but don't give me this civilan neutrality crap.

quote:

Suicide Mother’s Disappearing Crutches DEBKAfile Special Report. January 15, 2004, 1:42 PM (GMT+02:00) 15 January: Every war has its own life-and-death-stories, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is no exception. On Wednesday, January 14, 22-year-old Reem Al-Reyashi, a mother of two, blew herself up at the Erez Crossing from the Gaza Strip to Israel, murdering four Israelis and injuring ten. She left behind the grieving families of 1st Sgt Tsur Or, 20, from Rishon Lezion, Corp. Andrey Kegles, 19, from Nahariya and Border Guard 1st Sgt. Vladimir Trostinsky, 22, from Rehovot, and Gal Shapira, 29, from Ashkelon. Meanwhile, many thousands of Gazans are prevented from reaching their much needed jobs in Israel. The crossing has been closed to men and goods until further notice. The suicide-killer’s own death was succeeded hours later by a stream of wild rumors that ran round the Gaza Strip. DEBKAfile’s Palestinian and counter-terror sources have obtained a rare glimpse into the life and human background of the first Hamas female suicide bomber. One of the stories Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and the suicide bomber’s husband Ziyad Awad put about is that Reem hobbled up to the Erez terminal on crutches and so fooled the Israeli security officials into taking pity on her as a cripple. In Israeli accounts of the bombing, no crutches were mentioned, only a metal plate which the dead woman claimed was planted in her leg and accounted for the scanner’s beeps. So what happened to the crutches? Reem may have thrown them away after coming up with what she thought was a better cover story – the metal plate. Or else, the crutches might have contained the explosives she detonated and were pulverized in the blast. A third scenario: There were no crutches, and a fourth, the Israeli account omitted them for their own reasons. The most poignant account current among Palestinian circles acquainted with the couple was that Awad, after three-and-a-half years of marriage, wanted to get rid of his wife and encouraged her to set off on her mission of no-return. Reem came from one of the richest families in the Gaza Strip, owners of the biggest car battery factory in the region. Her husband had a better and safer life than most people in the impoverished Gaza Strip, even without her. According to this rumor, Reem more than once confided to him her wish to “martyr” herself and go to heaven – not so much because she courted death but rather because she secretly hoped her husband would beg her not to leave him and their two small children aged three and one-and-a-half. But she miscalculated. Instead, Awad actively encouraged her to go ahead with her plan, assuring her that God wanted her in heaven where they would later be reunited. Meanwhile, he would look after the children. At least, that’s what he told the small company of Gazans who came to offer condolences at the mourners’ tent he erected at their home in southern Gaza. He confessed he was only surprised that his wife had embarked on her sacred mission so soon. After all, Awad said, she had never mentioned any dates or times. Visitors came away with the impression that he had known nothing of the training his wife went through before the bombing, further evidence of how little interest Reem’s husband took in her when she was alive. Awad did not seem too surprised at the dearth of condolers. But her Hamas controllers were shocked. According to DEBKAfile’s Palestinian sources, Hamas leaders had banked on the group’s first woman suicide bomber in Gaza firing the Palestinians’ imagination and inspiring large numbers to follow in her footsteps. Six female suicide bombers have so far performed terrorist missions on behalf of fellow terrorist groups Fatah-Tanzim and others, accounting for the deaths of 39 Israelis. All six had problematical lives. Gazans, however, refrained from demonstrating support or sympathy for her mission, remaining cool even after the lavish praise heaped on the bomber by Sheikh Yassin. It was a double blow for the extremist Islamic group whose aim it had been to demonstrate that its operations against Israel could not be stopped by the strongest Israeli barriers or security measures. As it turned out, Reem only managed to reach the screening facility at the Erez Crossing before she blew up. She did not make it all the way through the checkpoint as Yassin and his men had hoped. Four Israelis were murdered because one Palestinian woman feared her husband no longer wanted her and because a wheelchair-bound Islamic cleric, already responsible for hundreds of Israeli deaths, taught her how to walk on crutches…to heaven.

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dj_ilan_yosef - interesting article, thanks for posting it.

kokanee

I just find it interesting that Hamas has turned to recruiting women with children in order to carry out these attacks. It is clearly an acknowledgement that the traditional tactics utilizing males has run into a brickwall (no pun intended). I am not here to judge the merits and rationale of the bombers, but I genuinely disagree with (young women with children) blowing themselves up, this represents a huge loss to society when this happens and the Palestinians do not need any more of that ontop of current problems.

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quote:

Originally posted by failsafe Civilian neutrality is BS. Look at most of europe during the second world war. Look at vietnam, iraq etc. If someone was taking my land you better believe i'd make them pay for it if they wanted it. I too abhore suicide attacks, but don't give me this civilan neutrality crap.

*sigh*

How long does a military occupation have to last before it's considered their land? 10 years? 20 years?

Canada used to be a British colony, and before that a French colony, and before that an Sioux/Navajo/Indian tribe, but you don't see them bitching about how we took their land and trying to kill us. When they lost the war, they lost the war, that was it. They don't commit acts of violence because they're not taught in school and by their parents that they're at war, and neither are we.

Ugh, I don't want to get sucked into the discussion of who is committing more attrocities because both sides are doing plenty of that... I'm just mortified by the notion that any of that violence is somehow justified.

Edit: Just because the Israelis they killed were soldiers, does not mean they were the same soldiers that shot at innocent Palestinians. It's not fair to brand the entire military based on acts of fanaticism by a select few members - that's no different from branding all the Palestinians as raging terrorists based on a selection of suicide bombers. It's all generalization, and it's all false.

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Last edited by DigiNut on Jan-16-2004 at 00:18

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe Civilian neutrality is BS. Look at most of europe during the second world war. Look at vietnam, iraq etc.

A civilian in civilian clothing: under the Geneva Convention, this was an "illegitimate" attack. The woman, if captured, would have been legally designated as an unlawful combatant, not a POW.

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So are the two kids supposed to follow in her footsteps now?
That was a selfishly sick act by mom...

{{{smoke}}}