I actually had the privellage to stand alongside M.I.K.E. recently at one of my usual clubs.

When he arrived he was a little stressed out as he had been delayed by something and obviously wanted to get his stuff sorted. I noticed that he didn't have a record box but he did have a laptop so I was interested to see how it would all work out. As this was my first real experience being able to watch a real pro using Traktor (i.e. someone who wasn't playing downloaded MP3s and knows how to DJ).

He got set up quickly enough and soon got ready to mix. This impressed me but I did notice that he didn't have the FS unit so realised that he may just be using Traktor by itself.

The one thing I can see about this technology is that it is really useful if you travel abroad as records can be a bit of a nightmare and I usually only end up taking in the region of about 60 to 70 when I travel. I usually manage to wing it as hand luggage which makes me feel a whole lot better.

Anyways back to the point.
I know for a fact that M.I.K.E. can DJ and that's not the point that I am getting at but the thing that became the most apparent to me was that the sound was truly appauling. I also know the soundsystem well enough in that club to know that the problem isn't with the set up. I watched him EQ and I did notice that he had to compensate slightly for loss of lower frequencies with the laptop by having the Bass EQs higher than I normally would using vinyl.

He played a good selection of music and in terms of his ability to know when to pick the right tune he really impressed. His harmonic mixing was spot on. But the sound actually got me to a point that I couldn't accept that this is the way forward. Not as it stands today.

Whilst I have to say I have been impressed with FS when I used is at a friends house, the thing that was so damn obvious when I heard it in a club was that this technology isn't ready yet.

I also noticed this when I saw Josh wink but thought it might just be the system in general. Now I have seen it on a quality sound system and have to say that I don't think the time for FS has come. At least for now.

Whilst M.I.K.E.'s set was without question the best of the evening (even if he did use traktor ) the mood of the dancefloor got a whole lot better when the last DJ came on. The bass vibe just got that much better with the use of vinyl.

I am not setting out to disrespect FS/Traktor users (Or M.I.K.E. for that matter) but I would very much like to hear what your experiences are with DJs using this technology and if you have noticed the same as I did?

Curious
Nem


PS
Please, none of those "j00 is di Uber Wangkor cuz FS r0XX0r" type posts because they don't mean sh*t to me anyways.

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Have you ever seen MIKE dj with records before?

I have used traktor before and i dont like it. I much prefer using vinyl as compared to software.

IMO using traktor requires no skills. Basically pick the tunes you want and click the auto BPM button. bam! tweek the eq's a bit and there you have it.

I havent seen dj's use this before. Im not a fan of using traktor, nor a fan of djs using it, but that just my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Dmatrox Have you ever seen MIKE dj with records before?

No but my colleague has.

quote:

IMO using traktor requires no skills.

I also agree with you on this point.


Cheers
Nem

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quote:

Originally posted by Dmatrox IMO using traktor requires no skills. Basically pick the tunes you want and click the auto BPM button. bam! tweek the eq's a bit and there you have it.

Well, I guess that'd depend on how you use it... But then again, I couldn't see people DJ'ing with only a laptop. Just doesn't seem very pro.

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I don't think piracy is such a big issue with something like Final Scratch. MP3's sounds pretty horrific on a club system and wav's or aiff's aren't readily available on any hub or filesharing service. You're still gonna have to own the vinyl in order to play it with Final Scratch... unless you don't mind the horrific sound. In which case you'd probably have a massive collection of MP3's anyway...

I have to agree that it's not time for Final Scratch yet but not because of sound quality issues. It's simply a badly made product. Anyone who uses the product knows what kind of reliability issues compatibility issues it has. If you don't know what I'm talking about check out the messageboards here. There customer support is also virtually non-existent.

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mmmm.. delicious...

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 He got set up quickly enough and soon got ready to mix. This impressed me but I did notice that he didn't have the FS unit so realised that he may just be using Traktor by itself. ... I watched him EQ and I did notice that he had to compensate slightly for loss of lower frequencies with the laptop by having the Bass EQs higher than I normally would using vinyl.

If he was not using FinalScratch and was just using Traktor Studio, how was the mixer connected to his laptop? I am just thinking that if it is hooked directly to the laptop's sound card then I would assume it would sound like ass whether it is mp3s or wavs.

I have to believe that most of the observed sound quality issues are mainly because they are mp3s. I mean I thought Josh Wink or somebody did a mix CD using TFS and WAV files?

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I saw PVD play late last fall, and he used a laptop with Final Scratch in a large club, on a great sound system. To be frank, it absolutely rocked!

A lot of my friends who are sceptics of FS were there and they had to agree that the things he was doing using FS would have been almost impossible with vinyl.

The sound was excellent, but if anyone should be expected to figure out the technical side of FS it would be PVD.

I think it comes down to why someone would switch to digital. We all know PVD doesn't use FS because it's easier (he actually brought his vinyl with him and didn't use any of it... might be a back-up). He uses it because it allows him to do things he wouldn't normally be able to do with traditonal Vinyl. He has mastered the technology and uses it to make amazing music.

I and my buddies were sold after we saw a DJ who knew how to use FS to its full advantage work his magic.

One of these days I gotta try it myself.

quote:

Originally posted by chrismack I saw PVD play late last fall, and he used a laptop with Final Scratch in a large club, on a great sound system. To be frank, it absolutely rocked! A lot of my friends who are sceptics of FS were there and they had to agree that the things he was doing using FS would have been almost impossible with vinyl. The sound was excellent, but if anyone should be expected to figure out the technical side of FS it would be PVD. I think it comes down to why someone would switch to digital. We all know PVD doesn't use FS because it's easier (he actually brought his vinyl with him and didn't use any of it... might be a back-up). He uses it because it allows him to do things he wouldn't normally be able to do with traditonal Vinyl. He has mastered the technology and uses it to make amazing music. I and my buddies were sold after we saw a DJ who knew how to use FS to its full advantage work his magic. One of these days I gotta try it myself.

I can appreciate your admiration for PvD (even if I think he sucks ass and is the most boring DJ out there, it all a question of taste). But you haven't answered my question really.
Do you DJ, what are you comparing it too and so on and what do you know about the actual sound?

I am however interested to know the sort of stuff he was doing that isn't possible with vinyl? Genuine curiousity. An example would be good.

Cheers
Nem

PS
That's a scary cat you have there!

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Hey:

To be honest, I wasn't much of a PVD fan myself (I always thought of him as the McDonald's of trance) - until that night. Now I'm a convert.

The sound quality was great. I didn't notice any loss of low med or hi frequencies. Like I said, if anyone has the expertise (and money) to pay sound engineers to get it right, he would be the guy. Mark Oliver, the resident at the Guvernment in Toronto (where PVD played) knows the sound system better than anyone and he posted a message on TA the next day talking about how great the sound was and how amazed he was with the way FS was used. (you can probably find the thread on here somewhere... dates back to October 21 in the Toronto forum).

When I said that he did things that you couldn't do with Vinyl, I might have mis-spoke. You probably could technically do them with vinyl, but I haven't seen anyone do them. He played layers and layers of sounds at the same time, without missing a beat or ending up with clashing harmonies. Then he would peel the layers back to nothing... just an acapella vocal track - and then bring it all back together. I suppose with 4 turntables and a good effects mixer you could accomplish the same thing, but I've never heard anyone try anything as complex. When you watched the concentration on his face as he did it, you could understand why he doesn't interact with the crowd much LOL.

Err... at least that was my experience. I defer to those wiser and more technically skilled than I am.

Top post nem

Interesting points

Its a good point to compare- like you, i know certain club systems inside out, and know exactly how they sound with vinyl....and i can tell straight away from the other side of the room if someone is mixing from cd if it is a track i am familiar with- this sound by comparison is quite frankly shite
Ive also used the denon 4000s at one of the clubs with MP3s burnt onto disc and they wouldnt cue properly, and they sounded even worse- so i know exactly what you mean about the lack of bass and transients

I barely trust a pc to send an email correctly, let alone risk my livelyhood and reputation using one. Ive had too many problems with cds to rely on them either


I too am interested as to what PVD was doing with FS that was 'impossible' with vinyl...... some examples would be good
I know (and i know nem does and probably can do himself) people who will make your draw drop with their turntablist skills and can do far more things on vinyl than is possible with FS- so it kinda works both ways- swings and roundabouts, horses for courses or whichever analogy you prefer


Top post

quote:

Originally posted by chrismack (I always thought of him as the McDonald's of trance)

LOL

id say dodgy mobile kebab van myself.....nowhere near mcdonalds standard