Wow, all they taught us was how to take a dump in a toilet so they wouldn't have to change our diapers no more.

Ted Kennedy was the government agent.


[[[smoke]]]

Tell that story to a former Enron employee, or maybe my cousin who lost her job at motorolla and her house.

Let’s see what they tell you.

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What do you think they'd say to me?

Nah you got it wrong . The hen will have a good life through her hard work and transfer that good life to her children. The other animals who dicked around will not be able to provide for their children as well and will, as a result, have less opportunities since they're dumber. Then the government agent will come in to punish the hen for passing on the benefits of her hard work to her children.

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka What do you think they'd say to me?

Damn you Clinton for signing NAFTA!



(My cousin anyways).

Seriously though, they'd want a crackdown on corporate crime so that they could be little hens again and compete on a fair playing field.

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Feb-19-2004 at 04:51

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Nah you got it wrong . The hen will have a good life through her hard work and transfer that good life to her children. The other animals who dicked around will not be able to provide for their children as well and will, as a result, have less opportunities since they're dumber. Then the government agent will come in to punish the hen for passing on the benefits of her hard work to her children.

Or the other animals would complain and complain and complain until a change was made. Or the pigs would organize and form a government where some had more rights then others. Viva la Porka!

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSZ Tell that story to a former Enron employee, or maybe my cousin who lost her job at motorolla and her house. Let’s see what they tell you.

Well, the Little Red Hen wasn't a crook. Don't try to tell me that because Enron failed, Capitalism failed as well! That's bleeding heart liberal talk!

quote:

Well, the Little Red Hen wasn't a crook. Don't try to tell me that because Enron failed, Capitalism failed as well! That's bleeding heart liberal talk!

Moreso than just bleeding heart liberal talk, it's just downright spurious. What happened with Enron was distinctly anti-capitalist. The absolute control of the owner over his property is one of the fundamental precepts of capitalism, but in the case of Enron, the owners - the shareholders, lost control of the company altogether as they weren't even aware of the true financial state of the company!

An (admittedly contrived) analogy would be to say that we shouldn't put air bags in cars, because someone could remove the air bag and use it to kill another person.

Furthermore, it's unclear to me how socialism could have prevented this fraud from taking place. I guess I'm just really not sure what point Dave was trying to make - although I strongly agree with his sentiments in his second post:

quote:

Seriously though, they'd want a crackdown on corporate crime so that they could be little hens again and compete on a fair playing field.

I agree with this precisely because a crackdown on corporate fraud is a necessary step towards the establishment of a more capitalist economy than we currently have - in that it empowers the owners of the company by ensuring the accuracy of the information provided to them.

The story makes three assumptions:

1) That people only become rich through effort and enterprise.
2) That people become rich independent from (or, indeed, in spite of) society.
3) That poor people are only poor because they are lazy and that they actively turn down opportunities to enhance their wealth as a result.

None of these are true, therefore the analogy is false.

Oh and there's a fourth one:

4) The Democrats are socialists.

They're probably further to the right (economically that is) than than fully 80% of the political parties in the world.

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quote:

Originally posted by Renegade The story makes three assumptions: 1) That people only become rich through effort and enterprise. 2) That people become rich independent from (or, indeed, in spite of) society. 3) That poor people are only poor because they are lazy and that they actively turn down opportunities to enhance their wealth as a result. None of these are true, therefore the analogy is false. Oh and there's a fourth one: 4) The Democrats are socialists. They're probably further to the right (economically that is) than than fully 80% of the political parties in the world.

It's funny cause if 1 and 3 were true alot of crop field and sweatshop workers would be rich!

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Well, the Little Red Hen wasn't a crook. Don't try to tell me that because Enron failed, Capitalism failed as well! That's bleeding heart liberal talk!

Nononono.

That's not what I was saying at all; bad analogy on my part.

Some of the animals or whatever that got laid off need a safety net in place to be reimbursed for being wronged, or they will be out on the street. They have the court systems, and they hopefully would also have a government safety net (if only a temporary one).

Likewise, if the government had not bailed out the airlines after 9/11, they would have all gone broke.

And since when are democrats socialists? They're basically liberal businessmen who believe in religious freedom, properly funding police, fire, and education, and upholding the Bill of Rights. Well ok they do a better job at upholding the Bill of Rights, but are not perfect either.

Last I checked it was Republicans who had passed a 500 billion prescription drug entitlement and had increased the size of the federal government at a rate double Lyndon Johnson's, so please spare me the "big government liberals" line.

Unfettered capitalism, and hard-line socialism are both harmful to the general citizenry.

On one hand you have little children making Nike shoes for 1 dollar a day, 15 hours a day in a sweatshop. On the other you have people who are unable to even start their own small businesses.

So if you want to call me a "bleeding heart liberal" for feeling that little children shouldn't be exploited, then I'm proud to wear that label. Progressives just believe in setting some guidelines for business to abide by, since by nature things are stacked against the worker.

Proof Jesus was a liberal:



*Note the characteristic bleeding heart*

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade The story makes three assumptions: 1) That people only become rich through effort and enterprise. 2) That people become rich independent from (or, indeed, in spite of) society. 3) That poor people are only poor because they are lazy and that they actively turn down opportunities to enhance their wealth as a result. None of these are true, therefore the analogy is false. Oh and there's a fourth one: 4) The Democrats are socialists. They're probably further to the right (economically that is) than than fully 80% of the political parties in the world.

The story is also flawed if you take into account the fact that the hen has almost certainly gained his proper education needed to be a productive worker, and benefited from some of those institutions of society that are supported with his tax money such as public schools, libraries, and universities.

Gaining an education and learning lifelong job skills from these institutions, and then once they are no longer needed, favoring policies that decapitate them, is freeloading.

Since you mentioned kindergarten, the children in New Hampshire can't even go to kindergarten because the Republican controlled legislature is unwilling to raise any form of taxes to pay for it. Local property owners are forced to shoulder the entire burden for public education, and that meager source of revenue is not adequate to fund public schools in general, let alone kindergarten.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=162425

Please enlighten me as to how that benefits the future hens of our country?

I'd say you were lucky to have had politicians watching out for you so that you could go to kindergarten in the first place.

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Feb-20-2004 at 10:03