LINKY

I've talked to several pro-choice advocates who were very against this bill being passed. This is the first time the law expressly gives rights to the fetus. I'm pro-life, so a little biased, but I like this law. It could really put a crimp in the pro-choice stance legally as now it makes it a murder to kill a fetus outside of abortion. Just wondering what this board, mostly pro-choice, feels about it.

quote:

Originally posted by NeoPhono LINKY I've talked to several pro-choice advocates who were very against this bill being passed. This is the first time the law expressly gives rights to the fetus. I'm pro-life, so a little biased, but I like this law. It could really put a crimp in the pro-choice stance legally as now it makes it a murder to kill a fetus outside of abortion. Just wondering what this board, mostly pro-choice, feels about it.

Well from what I've heard, this bill was not intended for abortion debate purposes. On that basis alone I don't have a problem with this bill. If, however, it was the intention of the religious-right GOP to make this bill into a slippery slope, and allow this bill to go towards that debate (and I can see its implications towards doing just that), then I do have a problem.

Honestly, if that truly is the case, it's just another political slimeball weasel-like method of back-dooring the issue. They know damn well that Roe v. Wade stands on solid grounds, and that they can never attack it directly, so they worm themselves around it in other methods such as this.

If this is their motive, I equate it to the means and methods of Creationists trying to weasel their agenda into the public schools, despite Supreme Court rulings and laws going against them.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

I like it too. Abortion rights activists want the designation of a fetus to be the same for everyone - that it's just a mass of tissue, and that it has no rights until it is born. But to the mother who has chosen to have her child, this is a very wrong designation, particularly after the date where the fetus is viable. So yes, I think the law has its benefits.

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

I don't like the law because I know exactly where it's going. Once the law passes, conservative groups are going to raise the issue of fetus right's with the court system in an effort to get Roe v. Wade overturned. But then again, perhaps I'm a little biased as well as I am for abortion and stemmed cell research up until the 72nd trimester.

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by occrider But then again, perhaps I'm a little biased as well as I am for abortion and stemmed cell research up until the 72nd trimester.

LOL. I just pooped my pants.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono LOL. I just pooped my pants.

Stewart, is that you?

STEWART!!!!!!

(sorry, too much MAD TV lately).

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok I like it too. Abortion rights activists want the designation of a fetus to be the same for everyone - that it's just a mass of tissue, and that it has no rights until it is born. But to the mother who has chosen to have her child, this is a very wrong designation, particularly after the date where the fetus is viable. So yes, I think the law has its benefits.

I'm against abortion after the fetus is viable except for health related reasons, but I want to know why those who give lip service to the "rights of the unborn" are also proponents of dumping more arsenic in our fresh water supplies, allowing ancient coal burning power plants to skirt the Clean Air Act to increase the amount of methyl mercury they spew into the environment, or of ending the toxic waste "superfund" cleanup program when many Americans live within miles of a toxic waste site. All these toxins, especially methyl mercury, are very harmful to the development of the fetus, and a significant percentage of women have a level of methyl mercury in their bodies that is unsafe for her developing child.

I'd like to see a constitutional amendment to rectify that injustice instead of some flavor of the month social issue like gay marriage, so that these women won't need an unnecessary abortion due to the birth defects caused by the unintentional ingestion of these toxins by means of drinking contaminated water and eating contaminated aquatic life during their pregnancies.

Also, loving the fetus and then hating it after it's born by denying it a proper education, clean air to breathe, clean water to drink, and a neighborhood free of toxic waste, is not in my book consistent with a "pro-life" stance. Likewise massacring little children long removed from the womb with cluster bombs in Iraq is also far from being "pro-life.'

This is from MoveOn:

http://www.moveon.org/mercury/

quote:

Under energy industry pressure, President Bush’s EPA plans to defer controls on mercury emissions by power plants for at least a decade. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that 4.9 million women of childbearing age in the U.S. — that's 8 percent — have unsafe levels of mercury in their blood. The people hit hardest will be new-born infants — every year over 630,000 infants are born with levels of mercury in their blood so high they can cause brain damage.

I’ll try and find some more objective sources, and also the CDC report later if anyone cares.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I don't like the law because I know exactly where it's going. Once the law passes, conservative groups are going to raise the issue of fetus right's with the court system in an effort to get Roe v. Wade overturned. But then again, perhaps I'm a little biased as well as I am for abortion and stemmed cell research up until the 72nd trimester.

There is a good chance it will die in the Senate as it did the last two times with the help of the pro-choice Republicans.

I agree with you that this is probably an anti-abortion bill, but if not then I would support it. If it's used for anti-abortion purposes, I don't think it would hold up in court unless another Scalia clone were appointed to the US Supreme Court.

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Feb-27-2004 at 17:03

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I am for abortion and stemmed cell research up until the 72nd trimester.

72nd trimester abortions? Wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the parent who advocates that....

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Originally posted by Renegade 72nd trimester abortions? Wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the parent who advocates that....

Oh it gets better/worse

Not only do I think 72nd trimester abortions should be allowed, I also think that some parents are oblivious towards the faults of their little shits and may be too incompetant to make the decision to abort. Therefore, I think that third parties should also have a say in the decision. So you see, you just can't suck up to your parents or play the emotional bond card.

Don't worry, all of this will be rolled out with far greater detail when I come to power. Just think of the veritable utopia we will live in!

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Oh it gets better/worse Not only do I think 72nd trimester abortions should be allowed, I also think that some parents are oblivious towards the faults of their little shits and may be too incompetant to make the decision to abort. Therefore, I think that third parties should also have a say in the decision. So you see, you just can't suck up to your parents or play the emotional bond card. Don't worry, all of this will be rolled out with far greater detail when I come to power. Just think of the veritable utopia we will live in!

ahhhh.. alla Sparta, I like.

If u ever need my tank, just let me know.

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Originally posted by Yoepus ahhhh.. alla Sparta, I like. If u ever need my tank, just let me know.

So we've abandoned our plans for invasion of french polynesia? Oh, well, I'll hop in with my armored car division.

http://tapiri.topcities.com/cars.html

Well, ok, so they're not really armored, but I guess they can be used anyway if we mount a gun on them. The left one is french. I'll let you drive that one, comrade Yoepus

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1+1=10

Last edited by DrUg_Tit0 on Feb-27-2004 at 23:21

Can I be the crazy guy running around naked with a revolver? I think I could also help inspire the national motto.

"Fuck with us and the crazy naked dude with the revolver will shoot your ass."

Not sure what that would be in latin...