'Bin Laden' offers Europe truce...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3627775.stm

interesting

also it's sad to see that bush is now giving support for some of isreals settlements, that will certainly not help the war on terror...

What is so interesting about that. There is no way that I can understand the mentality of some people. Maybe Europe feels that by distancing itself it can avoid this scourge, if that is the case we know who the real allies aren't when it comes to dealing with such people who organized the events of 09/11. Thankfully many European governments wouldn't waste their time even acknowledging that "tall monkey in a turban" What does it say if your policies are to be determined by such beasts

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Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Apr-15-2004 at 13:38

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan What is so interesting about that. There is no way that I can understand the mentality of some people. Maybe Europe feels that by distancing itself it can avoid this scourge, if that is the case we know who the real allies aren't when it comes to dealing with such people who organized the events of 09/11. Thankfully many European governments wouldn't waste their time even acknowledging that "tall monkey in a turban" What does it say if your policies are to be determined by such beasts

nah it's more interesting to see, that violence breeds violence. that al qauida actually care if the country are in the middle east, fucking around or not. something that many people here denies.

As for Bush we all know he is a moron, he makes many statements that seem dumbfounding to understand. It is truly embarassing to have this man leading America. He seems to lack an understanding of the fundamentals of Middle Eastern politics and societies and his advisors are obviously not helping him very well. I only hope that Kerry wins and slowly distances America from that region and its pathetic conflicts. I would give anything to see Europe have to deal with being at the front of negotiating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Israelis and Palestinians are like two stubborn mules that will not budge so long as they feel they shouldn't, I am so disgusted with this conflict it is truly sickening.

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Bush was never winning the war on terror... the other way around, he's been sparking more terror ever since I can remember.

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quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew nah it's more interesting to see, that violence breeds violence. that al qauida actually care if the country are in the middle east, fucking around or not. something that many people here denies.

Europe does "fuck around" in the middle east as much as America did during the inception of Bin Laden's group. So long as the western world has a stake in the stability of the middle east there will always be cause for Al-Qaeda hostility. Sure it may offer a truce now, but let's say it drives America out of Iraq or whatever. You really think it's going to stop then? So they'll be back to pre-2003 conditions when Al-Qaeda was still going strong. Then the new demands will arise.

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quote:

Originally posted by occrider Europe does "fuck around" in the middle east as much as America did during the inception of Bin Laden's group. So long as the western world has a stake in the stability of the middle east there will always be cause for Al-Qaeda hostility. Sure it may offer a truce now, but let's say it drives America out of Iraq or whatever. You really think it's going to stop then? So they'll be back to pre-2003 conditions when Al-Qaeda was still going strong. Then the new demands will arise.

yeah so overthrowing saddam was a way of stabilizing the middle east? looks like they have more problem there now than they did before... or pumping in billions of dollar into israel support their ever so provocative settlements? to me this is just protecting american interests, which i can't see help stabilize middle east?

going into afganistan is of course another chapter since that coutry basically was governed by al qaida...

and i don't say that US should draw it troops back from iraq, that would indeed be a very stupid move to leave it half finished. what i say is that you shouldn't start those kind of things. and what exactly will their new demands be? the end of the state US, just because it is annoying, even though they don't do anything to them? that sounds as ridiculous as people stating that america want to take over the world and introduce Christianity...

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew yeah so overthrowing saddam was a way of stabilizing the middle east? looks like they have more problem there now than they did before... or pumping in billions of dollar into israel support their ever so provocative settlements? to me this is just protecting american interests, which i can't see help stabilize middle east? going into afganistan is of course another chapter since that coutry basically was governed by al qaida... and i don't say that US should draw it troops back from iraq, that would indeed be a very stupid move to leave it half finished. what i say is that you shouldn't start those kind of things. and what exactly will their new demands be? the end of the state US, just because it is annoying, even though they don't do anything to them? that sounds as ridiculous as people stating that america want to take over the world and introduce Christianity...

I agree that overthrowing saddam was a wrong approach on the war on terror. No one is disputing that. Your original post made the inference that the US was taking the wrong approach, and Europe was making the correct approach as evidenced by this truce that bin laden was offering. However, the truce does not imply anything of the sort since the truce would not have been offered had the US not involved itself in Iraq. The truce was offered on the basis of US action rather than European action.

Hehe oh yea, the truce was for 3 months ... what a deal!

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quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew that sounds as ridiculous as people stating that america want to take over the world and introduce Christianity...

Oh but they do, don't you know its through a covert, Zionist conspiracy to control the world on the part of all Jews I figured that this would be popular fodder in some parts of Europe, its certainly the case in the Middle East, isn't it.

Osama bin Laden can send all the messages he wants to Al-Jazeera but he will continue to be a hunted rodent until the day he meets the devil, like a rabid dog he will be on the run, hunted in his mountain caves and one betrayal or one mistake is all that he needs to make. He probably shaved off that scragly beard of his and lives like a common rat as we speak. Remember Khalid Mohammed who was caught in Pakistan.

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Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Apr-15-2004 at 15:02

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I agree that overthrowing saddam was a wrong approach on the war on terror. No one is disputing that. Your original post made the inference that the US was taking the wrong approach, and Europe was making the correct approach as evidenced by this truce that bin laden was offering. However, the truce does not imply anything of the sort since the truce would not have been offered had the US not involved itself in Iraq. The truce was offered on the basis of US action rather than European action. Hehe oh yea, the truce was for 3 months ... what a deal!

Occ are you surprised at all that there are those who would say this is a terrific thing, I would love to know who made Osama bin Laden tne "freedom fighter" for the Islamic World. The first to kick his ass would be the Muslim governments if they are threatend ala Saudi Arabia who sent him packing a while back and now are fighting against terrorism in their own nation.

There are two sides to every story St_Andrew and if you believe that these people can be reasoned with then you fail to understand what they want. These people teach violence, destruction, hatred and intolerance of anything that is different from them and yet you talk about them as though they are reasonable freedom fighters that can be negotiated with, truly sad.

On one more note, what actions does Europe have that will deal with the issue of terrorism that the "dumb" United States of America cannot figure out, or are you blowing more hot air that usually comes out of many European politicians, all talk while putting forth no ideas. The reason that I ask this question is that you say the U.S. is on the wrong track, is Europe on the right one and why is this so, please elaborate for this ignorant American.

This is not to launch a personal attack on you St_Andrew because our views are usually similar, with this topic however we profoundly disagree, while America might be on the wrong track on terror, just because Osama offered some truce to Europe doesn't mean that they have done anything terrific. If Osama aim was to split the U.S. and Europe on the subject of fighting terrorism, judging by your statement he is succeeding in that area.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

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Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Apr-15-2004 at 15:23

I think we're all thinking on much too small of a time frame with both the war on terror and what is going on in Iraq. Al Qaeda has its roots back to the 1980 Afghan war. Iraq had been under the oppressive yet stable dictatorship of Saddam since the late 1970's. The hatred of the United States in the middle east has been present for just as long.

To say that the US would have the ability to go into this region, overthrow a dictator and somehow "win" the war on terror while attempting to establish a deomocracy and win the support of an entire ethnicity in a timespan roughly 1/25 as long as this mess has been occuring is the stuff of fantasy. This is going to be a long, drawn out progress, which fruits only a future generation may see. However, if it ultimately means that my children will not have to worry about half the things we do today I'm all for it.

This country is currently mired by congressional hearings into 9/11 proposing that the politicians of the past (and maybe of the present) did too little too late or nothing at all to stop terrorism on US soil. In 30 years I would rather look back and think that maybe my generation in fact tried too much to fix the problem then again too little. Even if the CURRENT side effect of this action is an increase of activity in a country and a region going through a painful change, I will only be able to tell you years from now if it was worth it. The current sentiment and violence towards America has been established in the middle east for the past several decades. To not think that it will take a greater amount of time to see beneficial results, and to pass judgement this early is naive at best.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan There are two sides to every story St_Andrew and if you believe that these people can be reasoned with then you fail to understand what they want. These people teach violence, destruction, hatred and intolerance of anything that is different from them and yet you talk about them as though they are reasonable freedom fighters that can be negotiated with, truly sad. On one more note, what actions does Europe have that will deal with the issue of terrorism that the "dumb" United States of America cannot figure out, or are you blowing more hot air that usually comes out of many European politicians, all talk while putting forth no ideas. The reason that I ask this question is that you say the U.S. is on the wrong track, is Europe on the right one and why is this so, please elaborate for this ignorant American. This is not to launch a personal attack on you St_Andrew because our views are usually similar, with this topic however we profoundly disagree, while America might be on the wrong track on terror, just because Osama offered some truce to Europe doesn't mean that they have done anything terrific. If Osama aim was to split the U.S. and Europe on the subject of fighting terrorism, judging by your statement he is succeeding in that area.

Please note the swiftness with which the European leaders have publicly denounced the Al-Quada "offer". Not all Europeans are spineless.