quote:

Originally posted by surferfb A list of some of the chickenhawks: George W. Bush Dick Cheney Spencer Abraham Elliot Abrams Ken Adelman John Bolton Andrew Card Don Evans Asa Hutchison Richard Perle Harvey Pitt Tommy Thompson John Walters Paul Wolfowitz John Ashcroft More can be found here.

Senator Brands Cheney 'Lead Chickenhawk'
Wed Apr 28, 5:14 PM ET

By DONNA DE LA CRUZ, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Democratic Sen. Frank Lautenberg on Wednesday called Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) the "lead chickenhawk" in an escalating war of words over the Vietnam-era military service of President Bush (news - web sites), Democratic rival John Kerry (news - web sites) and the vice president.



"We know who the chickenhawks are," the New Jersey senator said on the Senate floor. "They talk tough on national defense and military issues and cast aspersions on others, but when it was their turn to serve, they were AWOL from courage."


The Bush-Cheney campaign had no immediate comment on Lautenberg's criticism.


Cheney received five student and marriage deferments of military service during the Vietnam War. The vice president has not questioned Kerry's military record, but has argued that the four-term Massachusetts senator's voting record on defense and intelligence issues casts doubts on his judgment for commander in chief.


Bush served in the Texas Air National Guard during the war, and Democrats have questioned whether he fulfilled his duties. To prove the president showed up for duty during a temporary transfer to an Alabama base, the White House has released pay records and a copy of a dental exam Bush received on the base.


Kerry was a decorated Navy veteran in Vietnam and an anti-war demonstrator when he returned home. The presumptive Democratic nominee has said Bush and Cheney have no credibility in criticizing his service and anti-war effort because Bush has been dogged by questions about his Guard attendance and Cheney sought numerous deferments.


The criticisms, which for the most part have been limited to the campaign trail, spilled over into Congress on Wednesday.


Lautenberg defined a chickenhawk as "having the shriek of a hawk but the backbone of a chicken," and said, "and now the chickenhawks are squawking about Senator Kerry. The lead chickenhawk against Senator Kerry is the vice president."


House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., emerging from a meeting for Democratic lawmakers with Kerry campaign chairwoman Jeanne Shaheen, said the president should explain what he was doing while in the National Guard.


"As far as we know, Senator Kerry got three Purple Hearts for risking his life in Vietnam and President Bush got a dental examination in Alabama," Pelosi said.


Speaking on the House floor Wednesday, Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., characterized Bush's military service as "missing without action."


"We know that Senator John Kerry fought with courage and valor on behalf of his country," McDermott said. "We know that George W. Bush flew under the radar, because that's the only explanation for how a pilot suspended from flying parachuted into a Republican political campaign in Alabama."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...ocrats_cheney_2

Lautenberg (aka Lautenberg Amendment) is not so well liked in the military either...


[[[smoke]]]

this is gettin very fukin stoopid

While I found Sen. Frank Lautenberg's speech pretty interesting (and would no doubt agree with his stance to a certain extent), I thought it was just a bit misleading in regards to being a rebuttal against Cheney. I don't believe Cheney mentioned anything about Kerry's Vietnam war record. Rather, Cheney was referring to Kerry's voting record on war policies (which really is rather ironic given Cheney's similar war voting record, but I digress). In essence, Lautenberg was creating a strawman argument for attacking/refuting an argument that Cheney wasn't using. If Lautenberg had mentioned perhaps other Republican opponents/AM radio conservative mouthpieces, etc., then I believe his argument would have been a little more valid.

I still liked what he said, though. A great many Bush Admin. members (and Bush included) are the biggest chickenhawks we've ever seen. And I do find it ironic how the Repubs. viciously attacked Clinton for skipping out on the draft, yet the large handful of Repubs. up in the Administration have taken very similar measures, not to mention continue to attack a Vietnam veteran with 5 medals. Pretty sad, really.

Finally, I also thought it was interesting to hear McCain play referee and come to the defense of Cheney. A couple of weeks ago he defended Kerry's Vietnam record with vigor, and now he's working the other side of the fence as well. He's being a pretty good centrist in the matter, and I actually appreciate his stance.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Finally, I also thought it was interesting to hear McCain play referee and come to the defense of Cheney. A couple of weeks ago he defended Kerry's Vietnam record with vigor, and now he's working the other side of the fence as well. He's being a pretty good centrist in the matter, and I actually appreciate his stance.

Fess up ... you heard that on NPR didn't you??? I only ask cuz I heard a remarkably similar account of the events in congress yesterday.

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Fess up ... you heard that on NPR didn't you??? I only ask cuz I heard a remarkably similar account of the events in congress yesterday.

BUSTED!

NPR AND CNN! That darn liberal media bias is just gettin' to me!

I believe the NPR show was a discussion/light debate between David Brooks (conservative) of the NYTimes and someone with a liberal viewpoint from the Washington Post (his name escapes me ATM). Robert Siegal was the host, and he offered some good insight in his own right. I was listening to it on my way home. Afterwards I read both speeches on the internet at home.

I just thought up a question to ask, but I think I'll keep this on topic and create a new thread instead.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Last edited by MisterOpus1 on Apr-29-2004 at 14:41

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 BUSTED! NPR AND CNN! That darn liberal media bias is just gettin' to me!

/Looks over shoulder

Not that I was listening to that liberal garbage!! Uhhhh uhhhh ... I was only flipping through radio stations on my way to limbaugh and the dial got stuck!

Edit: Yup that was the program I heard.

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CNN is anything but liberal nowadays.

I can't watch that channel without a piece of my brain melting.



In fact I'd rather watch Sesamie Street, for at least I'd learn something.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveSZ CNN is anything but liberal nowadays.

Course not. It's the same as any other 24 hour news service bbc, reuters, etc.

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quote:

Originally posted by occrider Course not. It's the same as any other 24 hour news service bbc, reuters, etc.

I don't think we can brand "msnbc" as a news channel anymore in all fairness. Thats the only news channel I get here (after they killed my CNN) and its anything but news. Even the local news is more informative of national and worldly events than there garbage.


I miss foxnews

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quote:

Originally posted by DaveSZ In fact I'd rather watch Sesamie Street, for at least I'd learn something.

Well, at least you admit to your limited IQ.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Well, at least you admit to your limited IQ.

Give it here Shakka! High Five!

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