That has GOT to hurt.

The first point of this article, equating the national security advisor to the chairman of the joint chiefs, is absurd. Naturaly, the haters are going to jump all over this in some sort of knee-jerk reason to bash. They won't even attempt to look deeper.

ADM. Leahy was the equivalent of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff before we had a Joint Chief (we were at war) He was an active duty full blown admiral.

The issue of precedence is completely valid regardless of the feeble attempt of grenade throwing this article is trying to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo The first point of this article, equating the national security advisor to the chairman of the joint chiefs, is absurd.

I don't think that's what the writer was trying to infer.

Read it again.

On the eve of Rice's testimony, I thought this list of questions the panel should ask her would be appropriate:

1. On September 11, 2001, you were slated to deliver a speech describing national missile defense as the cornerstone of American foreign policy. No mention of Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda or fundamentalist Islamic terrorism appeared in the text of the speech, which you never delivered because of the attacks in New York and Washington. The White House is refusing now to release the text of that speech to the 9/11 Commission. Why?

2. That speech appears to verify claims made by former Counter-Terrorism Czar Richard Clarke that terrorism was not on the Bush administration's list of priorities before the 9/11 attacks. Why was the Bush administration so interested in national missile defense during the 'Summer of Threat' in 2001, when alarm bells about an impending attack were sounding everywhere?

3. The Hart-Rudman Report, prepared during the Clinton administration and delivered to the new Bush administration, carried many prescient warnings about the threat of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda terrorism. That report was completely disregarded by the Bush administration. Why?

4. You and others within the administration have claimed that al Qaeda terrorism was an "urgent" priority within the White House. If so, how do you justify the demotion of Richard Clarke, who was the ranking expert in the White House on that specific threat?

5. You and others within the administration have claimed that al Qaeda terrorism was an "urgent" priority within the White House. On May 8, 2001, the White House announced that Vice President Dick Cheney would chair a task force to investigate the possibility of a terrorist attack on American soil. If terrorism was an "urgent" priority for the Bush administration, why did this Cheney terrorism task force not convene a single time for a meeting after it was created?

6. You and others within the administration have claimed that al Qaeda terrorism was an "urgent" priority within the White House. Outgoing National Security Advisor Sandy Berger warned you that Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda would be the most important issue your administration would be dealing with, and he left you a massive file on the subject. By your own admission, that file went unread until September 11, 2001. Why?

7. You and others within the administration have claimed that al Qaeda terrorism was an "urgent" priority within the White House. If that is the case, why did George W. Bush tell author Bob Woodward in his book, 'Bush at War,' that he felt no sense of urgency about the terror threat? Did the "urgency" you have described somehow not translate into the Oval Office where command decisions are supposed to be made?

8. On May 17th, 2002, you said, "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, that they would try to use an airplane as a missile - a hijacked airplane as a missile." Abdul Hakim Murad, one of the bombers in the first World Trade Center attack in 1993, described while under interrogation in 1995 a plot to use airplanes as missiles against the White House, the CIA, and other prominent American targets. Were you not aware of this?

9. Ramzi Yousef, one of the masterminds behind the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, confirmed the testimony of Abdul Hakim Murad by describing in 1997 plots to use commercial airplanes as missiles. FBI agents who testified in the trial of Yousef further corroborated these statements. Were you not aware of this?

10. In 1993, the same year as the first World Trade Center attack, a $150,000 study was undertaken by the Pentagon to investigate the possibility of airplanes being used as bombs. A draft document of this was circulated throughout the Pentagon, the Justice Department, and to the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Were you not aware of this?

11. The 1993 Pentagon report was followed up in September 1999 by a report titled 'The Sociology and Psychology of Terrorism.' This report was prepared for the American intelligence community by the Federal Research Division, an adjunct of the Library of Congress. The report stated, "Suicide bombers belonging to Al Qaida's martyrdom battalion could crash-land an aircraft packed with high explosives into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the CIA, or the White House." Were you not aware of this?

12. In 1994, a disgruntled Federal Express employee invaded the cockpit of a DC10 with the intention of crashing it into a company building. Were you not aware of this?

13. Again in 1994, a pilot intentionally crashed a small airplane into a tree on the White House grounds, narrowly missing the building itself. He clearly intended to smash the plane into the building. Were you not aware of this?

14. Also in 1994, an Air France flight was hijacked by members of a terrorist organization called the Armed Islamic Group, who intended to crash the plane into the Eiffel Tower. Were you not aware of this?

15. Given the testimony of Murad in 1995, the testimony of Yousef in 1997, the FBI agents who were witnesses in the trial of Yousef in 1997, the Pentagon report detailing the airplane-bomb threat in 1993, the 1999 report from the Federal Research Division which described the airplane-bomb threat and named al Qaeda specifically, the attempt by the Federal Express employee to use an airplane as a bomb, the airplane attack on the White House, and the attempt by the Armed Islamic Group to use an airplane as a bomb against the Eiffel Tower, do you find it at all inconsistent to claim that no one could have predicted the use of an airplane as a terror weapon? Isn't it more likely that you and the administration were the ones who could never imagine the use of airplanes as weapons, because you were not treating the terror threat as a priority and were therefore not privy to all the data regarding the threat that was readily available?

16. There is someone in this hearing room right now named Sibel Edmonds. Ms. Edmonds was hired by the FBI as a translator nine days after the terrorist attacks. She has already testified privately before this panel. In her testimony, she stated that she personally saw documentary evidence which proves you were wrong when you claimed there was no advance warning of air attacks on U.S. soil. Ms. Edmonds saw intelligence documents that pointed to the use of aircraft against skyscrapers and other important buildings in New York, Washington and five other cities. In an interview Ms. Edmonds gave to the Toronto Star on April 5, 2004, she said, "There was specific information on the use of airplanes. There were people issuing orders and information on people already in place in this country months before Sept. 11. But she (Rice) is saying 'we' did not know, including herself, her advisers and the FBI. That statement is not accurate. It's a lie and a lie is a lie." How do you respond to these statements from Ms. Edmonds? Remember, she is sitting right behind you.

17. Ambassador Joseph Wilson was sent to Niger in February 2002 to investigate the allegation that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger for use in a nuclear weapons program. He returned and directly informed your deputy, Stephen Hadley, that the allegation had no merit. Despite this, George W. Bush used the Niger uranium allegation in his 2003 State of the Union speech to justify the looming Iraq invasion. How is it possible that this bogus allegation made it into that speech after your own deputy was informed the charge was false?

18. Ambassador Joseph Wilson in July 2003 revealed on the editorial pages of the New York Times that he had made that trip to Niger, that he found nothing there to support the uranium allegations, and that Bush should not have used the allegation in his speech. Several days later, Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was 'outed' as an undercover CIA agent by White House officials, who used proxies in the media to destroy her career. There is currently a federal investigation into this matter. Do you have any information regarding which White House officials did this to Plame that could help the investigators? Please remember that you are under oath.

19. According to American Central Command, 639 American soldiers have died in Iraq. More than 18,000 American soldiers have been evacuated for medical reasons. Over 10,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed. The cost of the war is somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 billion, but the figure is hard to pin down because the White House has consistently refused to provide budget data on the amount of money we have spent there. To date, there have been no weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq, and no connections between al Qaeda terrorism and Saddam Hussein have been established. As National Security Advisor, can you explain how all this death, all this money, and the total lack of any evidence of a threat to America posed by Iraq fits into the defense of our national security?

20. Finally, Dr. Rice, one last question. This panel was convened to determine why the 9/11 attacks happened, and to work towards ensuring that no such horror ever visits our nation again. As National Security Advisor, you held a vitally important position on the day of the attacks, and stand now as one of the people America depends on to help us keep such a thing from happening again. Yet you and the administration tried to thwart our request to interview you in this public forum. Few activities within American government are more important than that which we are undertaking here, but you refused to help us until public and political pressure made it impossible for you to do otherwise. How can you justify this behavior?


http://truthout.org/docs_04/040804A.shtml

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Senator Kerrey, Condi Rice is NOT Dick Clarke. You better recognize.

___________________
FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X I don't think that's what the writer was trying to infer. Read it again.

theres no doubt thats what whoever sent the fax in the article was trying to infer. What the hell were you trying to infer by posting it?
How about you read it again?
"The point was clear: the White House could no longer get away with the claim that Rice's appearance would be a profound breach of precedent"

crystal!

Rice, as she always does, kicked serious ass. She actually changed my views on the war in Iraq. We are in a war with terrorists and we must keep fighting and fight to win. I wish Bush would drop Chenny and have Rice run as his running mate, for sure Bush would get re-elected.

quote:

Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Rice, as she always does, kicked serious ass. She actually changed my views on the war in Iraq. We are in a war with terrorists and we must keep fighting and fight to win. I wish Bush would drop Chenny and have Rice run as his running mate, for sure Bush would get re-elected.

Could you elaborate on how you felt she "kicked ass"?

Strangely, I received the opposite impression, though I certainly would understand why conservatives would rather have her as VP instead of Cheney.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Could you elaborate on how you felt she "kicked ass"?

Well she factually made all of dick Clarke's claims sound like he is just trying to sell a book and that he was disgruntled over not holding a cabinet position anymore. Also, she further eluded to the fact that the Clinton administration should share the blame for 9/11:

“The terrorists were at war with us, but we were not yet at war with them. For more than 20 years, the terrorist threat gathered, and America’s response across several administrations of both parties was insufficient.”

“Many of these ideas had been deferred by the last administration, and some had been on the table since 1998,”

and as fof Bush'es image:

“I’m quite certain the president never pushed anybody to twist the facts.”

quote:

Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Well she factually made all of dick Clarke's claims sound like he is just trying to sell a book and that he was disgruntled over not holding a cabinet position anymore.

With what, specifically?

quote:

Also, she further eluded to the fact that the Clinton administration should share the blame for 9/11: “The terrorists were at war with us, but we were not yet at war with them. For more than 20 years, the terrorist threat gathered, and America’s response across several administrations of both parties was insufficient.” “Many of these ideas had been deferred by the last administration, and some had been on the table since 1998,”

Which is similar to what Clarke and others had mentioned about Clinton. So what?

But let's see what Clinton DID do about terrorism during his watch:

-Terrorists of 1993 WTC bombing caught and punished.
-Terrorists of 1995 OK city bombing caught and punished.
-Terrorists of 1996 Khobar Towars bombing caught and punished.
-Terrorists of 1998 Embassy bombings caught and punished.
-Signed Anti-terrorism legislation.
-Bombed Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.
-Thwarted attempt to blow up Holland tunnel.
-Thwarted attempt to blow up Lincoln Tunnel
-Thwarted attempt on life of Pope.
-Thwarted attempt to blow up LAX.
-Thwarted two attempts to plant bombs in cites in the Northeast and Northwest US.
-Thwarted al-Qaida’s efforts to establish a militant Islamist state in Bosnia.
-Signed airport security bill.
-Ordered Taliban money frozen.

So much for "shaking the trees" not helping fight terrorism, huh?

quote:

and as fof Bush'es image: “I’m quite certain the president never pushed anybody to twist the facts.”

What the hell would you expect her to say about her boss? He's a liar? Wouldn't be a very good supporting cast member now, would she?

BTW, who told the Air Force to stand down?

As one blogger has stated:

quote:

She handled things in typical Bush White House fashion. - She stayed on message and did not deviate. - She gave vague catch phrase responses regarding "structural problems" and "systemic change" - Accepted no responsibility for anything negative - Blamed others, like the Clinton White House, where possible - Continued to deny the existence of incriminating evidence even as it was staring her right in the face. - Did not give definitive answers. Never simply "yes" or "no". Often claimed no knowledge of events. - Never directly accepted responsibility for knowledge, usually prefacing answers with statements like "I was told..." - Heaped praise on Bush for his leadership

Here's another interesting tidbit from another blogger:

quote:

For me, an extremely telling moment came from one of the litany of "Yes/No" response questions asked by Thompson. He asked (I paraphrase) if she new before 9/11 that Saudi Arabia was holding the major financier of Al Queda. Her response was curt "No." I find this very hard to believe as this financier could be none other than Khalid bin Mahfouz, who was tied to the downfall of the BCCI bank and has close connections with the bin Ladin family, muslim "charities" (since proven to be funding terrorism) and shady dealings all across the world (including Manuel Noriega and CIA drugs-for-cash deals). He is also closely connected to Bush family companies and investments including Arbesto, Harken Energy and The Carlyle Group. In fact, his money helped keep Harken afloat during G.W.’s leadership of that company. And I almost forgot ... Mahfouz’s sister is married to Osama bin Ladin. But Rice had no knowledge that the Saudi’s were holding him? Please. Her ignorance (feigned or real), may be the same reason Bush won’t approve $12 million for the IRS to further investigate and trace the money trail. It hits too close to home.

Lastly, is it really any wonder why Bush won't release the Aug. 6th, 2001 intelligence briefing, titled, "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States"?!?

And then what what Bush's response to that briefing? He took the longest vacation ever recorded for any US President.

Hmmmm....

To be continued...

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Last edited by MisterOpus1 on Apr-08-2004 at 18:43

Here's some rebuttals on her opening testimony:

quote:

CLAIM: "We decided immediately to continue pursuing the Clinton Administration's covert action authorities and other efforts to fight the network." FACT: Newsweek reported that "In the months before 9/11, the U.S. Justice Department curtailed a highly classified program called 'Catcher's Mitt' to monitor al-Qaida suspects in the United States." Additionally, AP reported "though Predator drones spotted Osama bin Laden as many as three times in late 2000, the Bush administration did not fly the unmanned planes over Afghanistan during its first eight months," thus terminating the reconnaissance missions started during the Clinton Administration. [Sources: Newsweek, 3/21/04; AP, 6/25/03] CLAIM: "The strategy set as its goal the elimination of the al-Qaida network. It ordered the leadership of relevant U.S. departments and agencies to make the elimination of al-Qaida a high priority and to use all aspects of our national power -- intelligence, financial, diplomatic, and military -- to meet this goal." FACT: 9/11 Comissioner Jamie Gorelick: "Is it true, as Dr. Rice said, 'Our plan called for military options to attack Al Qaida and Taliban leadership'?" Armitage: "No, I think that was amended after the horror of 9/11." [Source: 9/11 Commission testimony, 3/24/04] CLAIM: "We bolstered the Treasury Department's activities to track and seize terrorist assets." FACT: The new Bush Treasury Department "disapproved of the Clinton Administration's approach to money laundering issues, which had been an important part of the drive to cut off the money flow to bin Laden." Specifically, the Bush Administration opposed Clinton Administration-backed efforts by the G-7 and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development that targeted countries with "loose banking regulations" being abused by terrorist financiers. Meanwhile, the Bush Administration provided "no funding for the new National Terrorist Asset Tracking Center." [Source: "The Age of Sacred Terror," 2003] CLAIM: "We moved quickly to arm Predator unmanned surveillance vehicles for action against al-Qaida." FACT: According to AP, "the military successfully tested an armed Predator throughout the first half of 2001" but the White House "failed to resolve a debate over whether the CIA or Pentagon should operate the armed Predators" and the armed Predator never got off the ground before 9/11. [Source: AP, 6/25/03] CLAIM: "We increased funding for counterterrorism activities across several agencies." FACT: Upon taking office, the 2002 Bush budget proposed to slash more than half a billion dollars out of funding for counterterrorism at the Justice Department. In preparing the 2003 budget, the New York Times reported that the Bush White House "did not endorse F.B.I. requests for $58 million for 149 new counterterrorism field agents, 200 intelligence analysts and 54 additional translators" and "proposed a $65 million cut for the program that gives state and local counterterrorism grants." Newsweek noted the Administration "vetoed a request to divert $800 million from missile defense into counterterrorism." [Sources: 2001 vs. 2002 Budget Analysis; NY Times, 2/28/02; Newsweek, 5/27/02] CLAIM: "While we were developing this new strategy to deal with al-Qaida, we also made decisions on a number of specific anti-al-Qaida initiatives that had been proposed by Dick Clarke." FACT: Rice's statement finally confirms what she previously – and inaccurately – denied. She falsely claimed on 3/22/04 that "No al-Qaida plan was turned over to the new administration." [Washington Post, 3/22/04] CLAIM: "When threat reporting increased during the Spring and Summer of 2001, we moved the U.S. Government at all levels to a high state of alert and activity." FACT: Documents indicate that before Sept. 11, 2001, the Bush Administration "did not give terrorism top billing in their strategic plans for the Justice Department, which includes the FBI." Gen. Henry H. Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff until Oct. 1, 2001, said during the summer, terrorism had moved "farther to the back burner" and recounted how the Bush Administration's top two Pentagon appointees, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, "shut down" a plan to weaken the Taliban. Similarly, Gen. Don Kerrick, who served in the Bush White House, sent a memo to the new Administration saying "We are going to be struck again" by al Qaeda, but he never heard back. He said terrorism was not "above the waterline. They were gambling nothing would happen." [Sources: Washington Post, 3/22/04; LA Times, 3/30/04] CLAIM: "The threat reporting that we received in the Spring and Summer of 2001 was not specific as to...manner of attack." FACT: ABC News reported, Bush Administration "officials acknowledged that U.S. intelligence officials informed President Bush weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks that bin Laden's terrorist network might try to hijack American planes." Dateline NBC reported that on August 6, 2001, the President personally "received a one-and-a-half page briefing advising him that Osama bin Laden was capable of a major strike against the US, and that the plot could include the hijacking of an American airplane." Rice herself actually admitted this herself, saying the Aug. 6 briefing the President received said "terrorists might attempt to hijack a U.S. aircraft." [Sources: ABC News, 5/16/02; NBC, 9/10/02] http://www.americanprogress.org/sit...JRJ8OVF&b=44887

So who's lying again?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...