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Cyrus King
Anti NeoCon Addict
Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto
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Well... there are alot of things that were well put together in this documentary, and many things that just utilized an "appeal to sympathy" fallacy.
jenin was truly a bad thing that happened, although there were not as many people as thought that were killed, it was still devastating.
In any event, after realizing this program was made by Martin Hamil, i knew i was in for another arab-villification program, like the joke of a documentary he made about the Concordia conflict. That film made the arab student council look like terrorists...claiming they wanted "israel destroyed" even though nobody on that film or any publication of what they said even implied that.
So back to the tpic at hand. The documentary did make its point though (as specified and selective as it was). It appealed to much sympathy (like the woman who lost her IDF soldier husband) and inter-lacing that with terrorist bus attacks inside israel. He compared many of the atrocities of other nations like Serbia, American sponsored NATO, America itself and the Hutu's, but failed to recognize that america also provides much of israel's military aid that ends up killing many palestinians. Not once, did he interview in depth what a victim of the Jenin event went through. Much of the documentary focused on the saddened state of an ISraeli soldier who lost 14 of his sioldier frinds that day.
Hamil did however succeessfully confront many journalists who used the words "massacre" and "genocide", but made it look as thoiugh they themselves said it by Highlighting these words in their articles. He didnt even look at the context of the sentence that was written. I carefully read those statements, and many of them were CLAIMS of massacres by palestinians.
But i think he did get his point across by illustrating the stigmatization this created.
Another problem I had was the "EXPERT" Alan Dershowitz who had alot to say. He has been proven by Norman Finklestein himself that many sections of the book that he wrote called "The Case for Israel" was plagiarized. So him as an expert was kinda funny. He utlized the concept of Anti-semetism to reinforce his argument that Europe in a way "wanted" to beleive ISrael is an Evil nation.
What bothered me about this documentary was the fact that Hamil didnt recognize that it was a devastating event, regardless of whether the media was wrong about their word choice and usage. Like most reporters, he tired to take an objective point of view, but it was hardly that when he interlaced it with mostly israeli suffering. If you are going to look at this event objectively, dont bring personal opinion and subjective matter into this.
I wont even comment about the "fatwa" that the man described to show that islamic people and arabs use fear to even cartoonists!
But he made his point well, jenin was not a "massacre". He didnt however discuss the innocents and combatant ratio's in depth.. which i think deserves the most attention when dealing with this topic.
I feel like diginut now.. i should stop rambling
___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V
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 Apr-29-2004 03:24 
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dEsidEL
Fu Man Choonz
Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Below the Belt
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| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
Well... there are alot of things that were well put together in this documentary, and many things that just utilized an "appeal to sympathy" fallacy.
jenin was truly a bad thing that happened, although there were not as many people as thought that were killed, it was still devastating.
In any event, after realizing this program was made by Martin Hamil, i knew i was in for another arab-villification program, like the joke of a documentary he made about the Concordia conflict. That film made the arab student council look like terrorists...claiming they wanted "israel destroyed" even though nobody on that film or any publication of what they said even implied that.
So back to the tpic at hand. The documentary did make its point though (as specified and selective as it was). It appealed to much sympathy (like the woman who lost her IDF soldier husband) and inter-lacing that with terrorist bus attacks inside israel. He compared many of the atrocities of other nations like Serbia, American sponsored NATO, America itself and the Hutu's, but failed to recognize that america also provides much of israel's military aid that ends up killing many palestinians. Not once, did he interview in depth what a victim of the Jenin event went through. Much of the documentary focused on the saddened state of an ISraeli soldier who lost 14 of his sioldier frinds that day.
Hamil did however succeessfully confront many journalists who used the words "massacre" and "genocide", but made it look as thoiugh they themselves said it by Highlighting these words in their articles. He didnt even look at the context of the sentence that was written. I carefully read those statements, and many of them were CLAIMS of massacres by palestinians.
But i think he did get his point across by illustrating the stigmatization this created.
Another problem I had was the "EXPERT" Alan Dershowitz who had alot to say. He has been proven by Norman Finklestein himself that many sections of the book that he wrote called "The Case for Israel" was plagiarized. So him as an expert was kinda funny. He utlized the concept of Anti-semetism to reinforce his argument that Europe in a way "wanted" to beleive ISrael is an Evil nation.
What bothered me about this documentary was the fact that Hamil didnt recognize that it was a devastating event, regardless of whether the media was wrong about their word choice and usage. Like most reporters, he tired to take an objective point of view, but it was hardly that when he interlaced it with mostly israeli suffering. If you are going to look at this event objectively, dont bring personal opinion and subjective matter into this.
I wont even comment about the "fatwa" that the man described to show that islamic people and arabs use fear to even cartoonists!
But he made his point well, jenin was not a "massacre". He didnt however discuss the innocents and combatant ratio's in depth.. which i think deserves the most attention when dealing with this topic.
I feel like diginut now.. i should stop rambling |
this is the quiet before the storm .. an arsenal of DigiNut rebuttal awaits you!
___________________
Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow
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Apr-29-2004 03:40 
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tatgirl
The Oracle
Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Washington DC
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Perhaps only those who saw the show should reply to this thread... cuz then they will have a clue as to what they are commenting on.
I'm beginning to wonder if u were watching the same show I was, Navid. That show was very pro-Israel's side of the situation, FOR ONCE (if you wanna call it that), yet u sit here and talk as if it were a show exploiting Israel's 'brutal actions'.
The show's focus was how the media blatantly twisted the truth and compared the incident in Jenin to some of the worst war crimes in world history, when in fact it was nowhere near that status. It also exposed how the Palestinians grossly exaggerated numbers, faked funerals (using live people), dug up decomposed old bones to insinuate these were new deaths, etc...
It also showed the lack of the media's willingness to retract their statements once it was shown there was no genocide committed. It showed the power of the media's 1st labelling comment, "Jenin Massacre". It showed the continuance & promotion of the 'blood libel' myth in Arab societies. It showed that it was not only acceptible to show a cartoon of Sharon eating a Palestinian baby (& then have it win cartoon of the year) and then claim that it is not an anti-Jewish or anti-Israel comic, but an anti-Sharon comment. (
Stop twisting this thread to discuss something it was never about. Stick to the facts & the topic at hand.
To anyone whom I've offended for starting a political thread in our forum, my apologies. Again, I'm not trying to stir up a 15 pg thread on the subject on how 'Israel is the root of all evil' (I've seen way to many of those already and they're old). I just wanted to point out the show was on and to discuss the matters of the show, which was to show the other side of things.
___________________
"When I die, I want to be buried under the dancefloor"- Frankie Madgenta
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Apr-29-2004 03:41 
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tatgirl
The Oracle
Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Washington DC
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Kaveh- appreciate your words. Educated & eloquent, and not this 'yeah, f**k Israel!' we're so used to seeing.
Bottom line- there are 2 sides to every story, and in this case, everyone suffers. There are no winners.
As for why this show did not cover the victims of Jenin's side, obviously that was not the point of this show. U can turn on any news station and see that- it's the Israeli's side of things u rarely see.
It was a show focusing on the stigmatization of the media's 1st words.
Anyways, it's about my bed time so no more long argument from me today.
Navid- I taped it- you're welcome to come over and watch it again. Do u really think I know how to transfer it to a WAV file or something? This is 1 Jew who missed the boat on controlling the media . Or, if u want, u can order a copy (they listed a 1-800 # if u want a copy), and I'm sure none of the proceeds go to supporting suicide bombers families.
(sorry- couldn't resist).
Peace out.
___________________
"When I die, I want to be buried under the dancefloor"- Frankie Madgenta
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Apr-29-2004 03:53
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