I was watching TV (ABC) about the abuse that took place in that Iraqi prison. The thought came to mind about how crazy some American's really are. I mean who coined the word "terrorism" in the first place. Many nations with suppressed people trying to fight back and may use any method necessary to fight off their suppressors. As soon as we hear oh! a Muslim country has allegedly been torturing people its Terrorism! must be condemned by the world and world leaders... no proof ever needs to be shown to the public and everyone is just left to believe that these people have committed these crimes because channels such as CNN and ABC news says so. I mean, we all live in democratic society and for people we accuse we try and deal with it democraticly... you know... "Innocent till proven guilty". But now with this whole thing about American's torturing prisoners (and mind you they all are innocent until proven guilty) I just don’t get how there is no apology. No outcry by CNN for a call for apology. When there’s evidence been shown on national television but still all Bush and most senior officials have to say is this doesn’t represent the army? Now it’s just like why should we believe anything they say? They lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction... they lied about the time line they were going to be in Iraq. They even lied about not using the Oil.... but then again they are using the money to refund themselves for the millions of dollars spent on the so called "smart bombs" ... and so what if they say they are using Iraqi money to fix the country... the damage was done by them. They should spend their own money fixing it.
I want to hear Bush apologize ... I want him tried for war crimes... and not only Bush but anyone who forced this crime on Iraq. Freeing Iraq from Sadaam is one thing. But is an American life worth more than an Iraq life? I just don’t get it.

What do you think?

yeah and on top of that, they arent going to pull troops out of Iraq in June like they said

quote:

Originally posted by Dmatrox yeah and on top of that, they arent going to pull troops out of Iraq in June like they said

pull out so early?

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quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic I was watching TV (ABC) about the abuse that took place in that Iraqi prison. The thought came to mind about how crazy some American's really are. I mean who coined the word "terrorism" in the first place. Many nations with suppressed people trying to fight back and may use any method necessary to fight off their suppressors. As soon as we hear oh! a Muslim country has allegedly been torturing people its Terrorism! must be condemned by the world and world leaders... no proof ever needs to be shown to the public and everyone is just left to believe that these people have committed these crimes because channels such as CNN and ABC news says so. I mean, we all live in democratic society and for people we accuse we try and deal with it democraticly... you know... "Innocent till proven guilty". But now with this whole thing about American's torturing prisoners (and mind you they all are innocent until proven guilty) I just don’t get how there is no apology. No outcry by CNN for a call for apology. When there’s evidence been shown on national television but still all Bush and most senior officials have to say is this doesn’t represent the army? Now it’s just like why should we believe anything they say? They lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction... they lied about the time line they were going to be in Iraq. They even lied about not using the Oil.... but then again they are using the money to refund themselves for the millions of dollars spent on the so called "smart bombs" ... and so what if they say they are using Iraqi money to fix the country... the damage was done by them. They should spend their own money fixing it. I want to hear Bush apologize ... I want him tried for war crimes... and not only Bush but anyone who forced this crime on Iraq. Freeing Iraq from Sadaam is one thing. But is an American life worth more than an Iraq life? I just don’t get it. What do you think?

eh, you should ahve posted in the political forum....

but anyways, from what I am told straight from my friends in Iraq, the people who were torturing iraqi prisoners are a minority. there is nothign that will get your ass in trouble faster than improper conduct.


say all you want, this comes from inside the military that is there.



as far as terrorist, the word is beginning to lose a lot of its meaning. once we declared war on iraq I odn't think any action irais take against us should be termed terrorist.

but I am in no position to change anything about its usage, so I guess we have to bite the bullet and live with it.

Dude... if they would tell every Tom, Dick and Harry in the military that they are torturing people its bound to get leaked out in the press. Trust me the U.S. troops would be in a much worse state than they already are. Minority?? The very act of torturing was condemned by the U.S. and was their basis to go into war… now they are doing EXACTLY what Sadaam did. I think it would be safe to say to get false confessions out of innocent people… they have to come back with some reassurance that the did something right in Iraq.

oh yea and sorry to whoever about not putting it into political form ... i wasnt aware of it.

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic Dude... if they would tell every Tom, Dick and Harry in the military that they are torturing people its bound to get leaked out in the press. Trust me the U.S. troops would be in a much worse state than they already are. Minority?? The very act of torturing was condemned by the U.S. and was their basis to go into war… now they are doing EXACTLY what Sadaam did. I think it would be safe to say to get false confessions out of innocent people… they have to come back with some reassurance that the did something right in Iraq.

I dind't want to take anything out of context so I boldened it.


but right there you are assuming that everyone troop there is doing this when plainly and simply this is untrue. The reasons Bush wanted to go into Iraq are definitely different and more varied than just torture.


plus understand, there are bad apples everywhere man, no one is perfect, and a few people do not represent the whole. Most people cite stats about the opinions of people in the US, however remember, those stats do not apply to everyone, we do have own own opinion, it is not dictated by the government.

so I guess my point is, torturing is very wrong, even when it gains us an advantage in the war. Those that do use it shoudl be punished accordingly. End of story.

Yea I completely agree with you about bad apples. And I didn’t want to blame all American's or Troops for doing that. What I'm saying is there are bad apples every where. But when it comes down to the U.S they have this attitude of not being apologetic to anyone, and at the same time expecting other people to bend over backwards to say something about their bad apples, with or without evidence of it happening. One more thing... going to war with Iraq was based on illegal weapons. When that didn’t work it was Sadaam. What else would you say besides these was the reason so threatening to the security of the world that it could only be resolved by dropping bombs over innocent peoples houses.

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic Yea I completely agree with you about bad apples. And I didn’t want to blame all American's or Troops for doing that. What I'm saying is there are bad apples every where. But when it comes down to the U.S they have this attitude of not being apologetic to anyone, and at the same time expecting other people to bend over backwards to say something about their bad apples, with or without evidence of it happening. One more thing... going to war with Iraq was based on illegal weapons. When that didn’t work it was Sadaam. What else would you say besides these was the reason so threatening to the security of the world that it could only be resolved by dropping bombs over innocent peoples houses.

well to be perfectly honest, I think going to war was a bunch of crap, like many other wars, this could and very well should have been avoided.


its seems like the main reason for going to war was Cheney, he wanted to way before 9/11, and so did bush. It sucks when people get that much power and can abuse it like so. this whole pre-emptive strike is crap too. mainly since it is based on faulty intel.


so yea, if I had my way, there would be no US lead war in iraq, no haliburton making tons o money...and no fcc crap....

..true.. true..

Nobody seemed to notice that we also went to war in Afghanistan?

But that was because we were hit first... right?

Well suppose we attacked Afghanistan before the 9-11 attacks? What would it be like then?

I suppose it would be just like it is now... with Iraq, people pissed off that we attacked for no reason. Oh well, at least we got Iraq first.

The United States has the finest intelligence agency in the world. I have faith that one man (George W. Bush) could not have "made" a war (as the folks at CNN would have you believe) without a damn good reason. WMD or no WMD (there is still a debate over that one, it's not over) the war in Iraq might not have been a bad thing after all, we just might never know.

PS. The oil argument makes you look ignorant. Iraq or no Iraq, our oil will still be regulated by OPAC, and Bush knows this.