I have to respond to this because it is good issue, and like you said, this can be taken in a number of ways... sometimes, it is quite good to be elite! And why would this be? Well, it has something to do with being confident in your own tastes and selective as to what you enjoy -- after all, a wine connoisseur does not just drink from any bottle. But, on the other hand, close-mindedness is very dangerous when it comes to imposing your preferences on others, and I'll get to that in a bit.

What is noise? What is music? Greats like Cage asked these questions but they have *no* definitive answers. The arguments always come down to the same, redundant few ones. You have no doubt heard some of the following:

-"just because it's more popular doesn't mean its better"
-"it's not music, it's marketing"
-"this song only has three chords, it's dumbed down for the masses!"
-"this song has too many notes, it's pretentious!"
-"that whole album was pandering to teenyboppers"
-"so-and-so sold out!"
-"i have good taste in REAL music... so many people are sheep!"
-"electronic music isn't real music because the instruments are all beeps and bleeps and you just push a button and it makes songs for you"

There are elitists who pride themselves on underachievement and unhealthy heapings of myopic tunnel vision! I'm sure you know this: for example, someone who says "I ONLY listen to X DJ or Y kind of music because EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS and that will NEVER change." Inflexibility kills, adaptation like the evolution of electronic music itself is what's truly progressive.

I myself -- I switch them up. Sometimes I'm a diehard technosnob (in an aloof, comedic way, don't worry, I'll use smilies ), othertimes I adopt the attitude of happy new raver. I don't have a problem doing this mentally, although it seems to me some people are unable or unwilling to do this. I still discover a lot of music I like, and approach it freshly.

Good old days? Sure, and lots of good new days too . . .

The bad snobs tend to be quite interventionist -- criticizing others for their tastes and getting in the way of their musical enjoyment by telling them what to listen to. Most technosnobs I've come across are not nearly as bad as, say, some classical and jazz music snobs, but it seems to be levelling out. For me, there is a YUGE (as Donald Trump might say) difference between being rude and pushy into other people's enjoyment, and me simply saying "that's not my cup of tea but I'm happy you enjoy it" and moving on.

Music is such a luxury; we should all be so grateful

___________________
Hi, my name's Torley. I'm here at TA to learn, share, and have fun!

get hooked, click here to listen to "The_Autistic_World_of_Torley.mp3" | dialup version
more @ torley's techno music and anti-techno music blog

Last edited by Torley Wong on May-26-2004 at 20:02

I don't consider myself an elitist, however, I believe it is a good thing despite the fact that many people will not understand the elitist's point of view, because it constantly refines the music industry and purges out the well marketed trash. It's nice to hear from people that have moved passed the obvious.

___________________
You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh. - Tyler Durden

Last edited by DjCoz on May-27-2004 at 01:41

It annoys me intensely when elitists refuse to lighten up and listen to good, fun music. The amount of times people on here have attacked me for listening to Public Domain or PPK, not because they dislike the music, but because it's too "commercial" or whatever is unbelievable. If you don't like a track, fine. But if your reason is that it was mainstream or popular, then I don't want to know your opinion.

I listen to Public Domain, 666, Warp Brothers... all fun, commercial hard house. I listen to cheesy old-skool rave like 2 Unlimited. I listen to Sash! occasionally. If the track's good, who cares how cheesy it is?

I never slate anyone for listening to commercial or cheesy stuff, I only slate them for liking bad stuff.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by DjCoz I don't consider myself an elitist, however, I believe it is a good thing despite the fact that many people will understand the elitist's point of view, because it constantly refines the music industry and purges out the well marketed trash. It's nice to hear from people that have moved passed the obvious.

However, the odd thing is this -- the world is full of contradictions and sometimes, people might want to consider embracing the whole yin-yang (so to speak) instead of just sitting on one side of the fence or grabbing a single-flavored slice of pie. People grow, people change, and I think some of the greatest pop music is that which made obvious statements because things are quite relative, there are MANY differences in how people appreciate music: gender comes into play (clearly not a lot of boyband fans here), cultural differences (some people find J-Pop downright annoying because they are unaccustomed to the extremely high-pitched voices), not to mention lifestyle (electronic music goes with a high-tech lifestyle, stereotypically speaking) and so on and so on.

There are geniuses who have pushed the obvious: Philip Glass! Really, two notes repeating over and over at times. What could be more obvious than that? But there is subversion at play, and irony, and so many other wonderful, human things. Punk music! Or at least, the DIY attitude of punk. I'm keeping in mind that on some foreign island out there in one of the grand oceans of Earth, their commercial music consists of instruments made from hollowed-out trees and seashells, and Britney Spears is the most "underground" thing they have

People have their own choices to make in music. It is a capitalist society in America at least, so if you want to buy Top 40, go ahead. If not, you are entitled to that too. Music stores have many kinds of music and it's not exactly like the CDs (or MP3s ) are hoppin' mad and waging war at each other across the floor.

I subscribe to a simply complex philosophy: I may appreciate music for its esoteric, technical production or for its arcane, deeper meanings, but ya know, I dig a catchy melody and a hot hook and at the end of the day, if I'm somehow drawn to a song and I like it -- then I LIKE IT!

If I liked Avril Lavigne -- which I do -- and denied it to look "cool" to others, wouldn't that make me an awful hypocrite instead of being bluntly honest and willing to take the heat for it?

___________________
Hi, my name's Torley. I'm here at TA to learn, share, and have fun!

get hooked, click here to listen to "The_Autistic_World_of_Torley.mp3" | dialup version
more @ torley's techno music and anti-techno music blog

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It annoys me intensely when elitists refuse to lighten up and listen to good, fun music. The amount of times people on here have attacked me for listening to Public Domain or PPK, not because they dislike the music, but because it's too "commercial" or whatever is unbelievable. If you don't like a track, fine. But if your reason is that it was mainstream or popular, then I don't want to know your opinion. I listen to Public Domain, 666, Warp Brothers... all fun, commercial hard house. I listen to cheesy old-skool rave like 2 Unlimited. I listen to Sash! occasionally. If the track's good, who cares how cheesy it is? I never slate anyone for listening to commercial or cheesy stuff, I only slate them for liking bad stuff.

LOL... yes... your last sentence is a bit confusing though, because there are more than a few people who equate commercial/cheesy = bad. It comes down to each individual case for me, and if I like a track, I like a track. Like human attraction, we haven't gotten music attraction quite figured out just yet...

There is a lot of jealousy and envy, as well as insecurity. If more people would admit to that, they'd be better off, but they hide behind hostile walls of deceit and pretend to dislike stuff that they really do find "guilty pleasures", only making themselves more confused inside. It's really sad, because the world is so full of pain and suffering, and like some great scribes have said on here, "it's only music" and the world needs more love. (Yes, I am referring to Celine Dion here. )

Someone should promote the idea of "the mainstream underground"

___________________
Hi, my name's Torley. I'm here at TA to learn, share, and have fun!

get hooked, click here to listen to "The_Autistic_World_of_Torley.mp3" | dialup version
more @ torley's techno music and anti-techno music blog

quote:

Originally posted by aspergian LOL... yes... your last sentence is a bit confusing though, because there are more than a few people who equate commercial/cheesy = bad.

Yeah, in most cases it does equate to bad, but commercial cheese can still be very good.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

I just don't get the use of the word "cheese" as an insult -- why, it's CHEESY! LOL.

But really, I find no basis in that and simply cannot relate.

Besides, if the cheesemakers keep using it as a compliment, the meaning of it will be turned around anyway :P like how "bad" and "wicked" and "sick" are good things and the world is all topsy-turvy.

Lesson I learned:

Cheese goes with wine.

Kraft dinner & Caviar.

___________________
Hi, my name's Torley. I'm here at TA to learn, share, and have fun!

get hooked, click here to listen to "The_Autistic_World_of_Torley.mp3" | dialup version
more @ torley's techno music and anti-techno music blog

quote:

Originally posted by DjCoz I don't consider myself an elitist, however, I believe it is a good thing despite the fact that many people will understand the elitist's point of view, because it constantly refines the music industry and purges out the well marketed trash. It's nice to hear from people that have moved passed the obvious.

I agree. It's essential to have well-educated and forward thinking artists to push the boundaries of music, not just electronic music, exclusively.

However, not all elitists are arrogant snobs. Those who feel that they are above everyone else because the music they listen is cool or underground needs to grow up put that arrogance in a positive manner.

Finally, the true elitists only prove with real action rather than words, especially words that try to put people down.

___________________


Enjoying: Sasha - Live @ Zouk 06

Its a fine line between being elitest, and being an arrogant narrow minded wanker.
Fine line yes- but it does exist

Trance is of course a wide genre, but this post when trance is referred to I'm talking about 'mainstream' trance for want of a better word.

The majority of the posters here now seem to be fairly new to the scene and everythings new for them, the tired cliche trance that seem to be released oh so often currently is exciting to them. The older posters, the trancers who have been around longer know better and of course any honest opinon on such tracks, and any talk of how it was so much better previously will appear elitist or jaded.

It's a wasted effort trying to turn the newer listeners opinions as they'll never experience the trance growth period themselves. Now that mainstream trance has been established it seems to have stopped progressing and more people seem to be listening to trance because of the image than the music, just take the masses of positive responses on this board of Tiesto's poor attempt at an album, Just Be. The weak ear will take in music as good if it wants to, if the artists release 'should be good' or if they consider themselves a huge fan. I'm gonna get flamed for that last line.

Of course it isn't all newer trancers, there are some older ones who maybe just didn't appreciate the older stuff enough to realise most of the newer stuff is offering nothing new. My final point is that to the newer listeners, ignorance is bliss, what they hear is great and you can't take that from them or argue against it. They'll argue against the veteran time and time again as they don't know any different - but it's the older listeners who will always be jaded, hoping for some innovation and fresh sounds that will rekindle their faith in this wonderful genre.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Last edited by neil_f on May-26-2004 at 21:50