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LiquidX
It's All OvA!



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: In Ur Mind
Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Updated: 02:12 PM EDT
A Film to Polarize Along Party Lines

By JIM RUTENBERG, The New York Times


The Michael Moore documentary the Walt Disney Company deemed too partisan to distribute offers few new revelations about the connections between President Bush and prominent Saudi Arabian families, including that of Osama bin Laden.

But this film, "Fahrenheit 9/11," which is scheduled to make its debut today at the Cannes International Film Festival, contains stark images of civilian casualties and disillusioned soldiers from the Iraq war zone that have rarely, if ever, been shown on American television. And the muckracking craft evident in this nearly two-hour attack on President Bush's tenure in the White House is likely to have a galvanizing effect among both conservatives and liberals should the film be widely distributed this summer.

A reporter for The New York Times was invited to a screening of the film last week. "Fahrenheit 9/11" focuses on longstanding ties between the Bush family, its associates and prominent Saudis and on whether those ties clouded the president's judgment in recognizing warning signs before the Sept. 11 attacks and hampered his response afterward.
Mr. Moore extends his critique of the president to his conduct of the war in Iraq, arguing that the war is victimizing not only Iraqis but also the lower-income enlisted Americans who are fighting in it. In addition he attempts to make a case that the government's terrorism alerts at home are being used to repeal some civil liberties.

These are the subjects that have made "Fahrenheit 9/11" such a political hot potato. Icon Productions, Mel Gibson's company and the original primary investor in the film, backed out last spring, and Miramax Films, a Disney division run by Harvey and Bob Weinstein, stepped in.

Although Disney executives said they made clear last May that Disney would not allow Miramax to distribute the film, it was only recently that the Weinsteins became convinced they would not be able to budge their corporate masters. Two weeks ago Mr. Moore, who won an Oscar for his documentary "Bowling for Columbine," went public to protest Disney's actions. "Some people may be afraid of this movie because of what it will show," he said at the time. (Last week, Disney agreed to sell the movie to the Weinsteins, who can arrange for its distribution in North America, though not under the Miramax name.)

But Republicans predict many viewers will discount the film as an anti-Bush screed, and that it will ultimately have no effect on the election. Democrats say they hope it will feed growing discontent in the United States with Mr. Bush's Iraq policy and help the campaign of Senator John Kerry, his presumptive Democratic challenger.

Mr. Moore is confident it will sway votes against Mr. Bush, though he notes the film, into which he also has tried to inject a good dose of humor, is likewise critical of Democrats for not posing any significant opposition to Mr. Bush after Sept. 11. Mr. Moore said he was considering making at least one sequence from the film available to the news media today after he presents it at the Cannes film festival: that of American soldiers laughing and taking pictures as they place hoods over Iraqi detainees, with one of them touching a prisoner's genitals through a blanket.

Mr. Moore and his production team said they also believed the film would get attention for showing that a name excised from one of Mr. Bush's National Guard records was that of an investment counselor for one of Osama bin Laden's brothers, Salem.

In a copy of the record released by the National Guard in 2000, the man in question, James R. Bath, was listed as being suspended from flying for the National Guard in 1972 for failing to take a medical exam next to a similar listing for Mr. Bush. It has been widely reported that the two were friends and that Mr. Bath invested in Mr. Bush's first major business venture, Arbusto Energy, in the late 1970's after Mr. Bath began working for Salem bin Laden.

Mr. Bath and the White House have said that the money he invested in Mr. Bush's company was his, not that of Mr. bin Laden. The White House said Friday that Mr. Bath's name was expunged from the record it released in February only to protect his privacy and should have been in 2000, as well.

That is one of several connections Mr. Moore highlights in the film between Mr. Bush, his family and associates and Saudi Arabia. Fifteen of the 19 Sept. 11 hijackers were Saudis, as is Osama bin Laden. As White House officials noted last week, however, many of these connections have been made elsewhere, most recently in "House of Bush, House of Saud," by Craig Unger (Scribner, 2004).

But writ large on the big screen with Mr. Moore's narration and set to music, the connections could still prove revelatory to those who have not paid close attention to reports about Saudi Arabia's connections to Mr. Bush and his associates. At the screening last week audience members — including people featured in the film like the mother of a serviceman killed in Iraq and a soldier unwilling to return — exclaimed loudly when Mr. Moore's narration spelled them out.

In one connection the film notes that Mr. Bush's father, George H. W. Bush, worked as a senior adviser to the Carlyle Group, a private investment company with various ties to Saudi Arabia and even, for some years, to the family of Osama bin Laden.

"My point is first of all that the Bushes were so close to the Saudis that they essentially had turned a blind eye to what was really going on before 9/11," Mr. Moore said in an interview. "And after 9/11 they were in denial."

More specifically the movie implies that the Saudi connections explain why the United States facilitated the departure of dozens of Saudi nationals from the country — including relatives of Osama bin Laden — shortly after the attacks, and charges they were not properly questioned. But like other points in the film, critics will certainly argue with that assertion, and may not have to go far to seek ammunition. The independent panel investigating the Sept. 11 attacks recently reported that it believed that the evacuation was handled properly. And the family of Osama bin Laden disowned him in the 1990's and says that it has no relationship with him anymore.

Adel al-Jubeir, foreign policy adviser to Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, said that any ties between Mr. Bush and his associates and prominent Saudi Arabians should not be considered odd. "Look at any Texas family that's involved in the oil or oil services, and you will find they have a lot of connections to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf," he said, referring to assertions that the connections add up to anything more than that as nonsense.

After hearing a description of the some of the connections made in the film, Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director, said, "It's so outrageously false, it's not even worth comment."

Mr. Bartlett also said he had no comment on the sections of the film that address the war in Iraq, which include gruesome images of violence, like a man angrily holding up an infant's charred corpse after an American attack and the exposed bone of a shrapnel-infused leg.

Jim Dyke, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, said he believed there was no need to prepare a public challenge to the film's validity upon its release. "People are smart enough to know that this is someone who is very angry, who has for some time had a clearly partisan agenda," he said.

Just the same, Democratic operatives said they believed viewers' opinions of Mr. Moore would not matter if his film raised new or even old questions about Mr. Bush.


May 17, 2004

Copyright © 2004 The New York Times Company




--- I hope the AMERICAN people wakes up a bit..



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Old Post May-17-2004 19:46  Chile
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NeoPhono
Übermensch



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: In Orbit
Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
--- I hope the AMERICAN people wakes up a bit..




Wake up to what? The distorted facts, one-sided reporting and personal vendettas of Michael Moore? As the article said, this movie will do one thing if widely released. It will give the super-liberal Bush-bashers more fodder for their cannon and it will again prove to the middle-grounders and conservatives that Moore makes his money by selling his perverted view of reality to those he knows will buy it.

Old Post May-17-2004 20:44  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas
Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by LiquidX
--- I hope the AMERICAN people wakes up a bit..




to what? put the movie and the hype aside. wake up to what?

enlighten me, the sleepy American, oh great see-er. the great Chilean see-er of...things!!!?

Old Post May-18-2004 01:50  United States
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Cyrus King
Anti NeoCon Addict



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto
Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
to what? put the movie and the hype aside. wake up to what?

enlighten me, the sleepy American, oh great see-er. the great Chilean see-er of...things!!!?


Watch the movie

Im sure it will clue you in to many things that are not surprising but informative.

Its seems like you want to hate the film by bashing ala Ad hominem styles


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Old Post May-18-2004 06:24 
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas
Re: Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by Cyrus King
Watch the movie

Im sure it will clue you in to many things that are not surprising but informative.

Its seems like you want to hate the film by bashing ala Ad hominem styles


OH MY F**KING GOD. DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Q5echo on May-18-2004 at 06:44

Old Post May-18-2004 06:38  United States
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St_Andrew
I <3 NYC



Registered: May 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

http://film.guardian.co.uk/cannes20...1219269,00.html

it has been showed in canes now, i want to see it

Old Post May-18-2004 13:02  Europe
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by NeoPhono
Wake up to what? The distorted facts, one-sided reporting and personal vendettas of Michael Moore? As the article said, this movie will do one thing if widely released. It will give the super-liberal Bush-bashers more fodder for their cannon and it will again prove to the middle-grounders and conservatives that Moore makes his money by selling his perverted view of reality to those he knows will buy it.


*Nods head*

Michael M. is way too Left-Wing for my liking...

While trying to be informative, he distorts the real situation and blinds the watching public through his own myopic views.

Sad really because he does have the potential of being great...if not for his own personal agenda.

Old Post May-18-2004 13:30  Canada
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Sand Leaper
Tension hunter



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Oslo, Norway
Re: Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
While trying to be informative, he distorts the real situation and blinds the watching public through his own myopic views.

Sad really because he does have the potential of being great...if not for his own personal agenda.


Agreed.


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Old Post May-18-2004 13:31  Norway
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arctic
Teh Pwn



Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Australia
Re: Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
*Nods head*

Michael M. is way too Left-Wing for my liking...


What do you mean by that? You dislike people because they're left wing, or what?

quote:
While trying to be informative, he distorts the real situation and blinds the watching public through his own myopic views.

Sad really because he does have the potential of being great...if not for his own personal agenda.


To be fair though, he isn't making unbiased documentaries, he's making opinionated films that make a point. of course his own personal agenda is going to come through, because that's what the entire film is based on. I won't argue with the distortion point, I'm generally called a left winger by most people and I believe that Moore is pretty much the left's version of Rush Limbaugh. He's a shock jock, plain and simple.

The following picture pretty much sums up how I feel about him at present:


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Old Post May-18-2004 14:06  Australia
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

I've already posted my feelings on Moore a x1000 other times in previous posts, but it appears his film at the Cannes Festival had a pretty nice reception, even from some film critics:

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ...film/index.html


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Old Post May-18-2004 16:08  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

Here's Roger Ebert's review. Doesn't really give a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" reply, but just gives an overall summary of the movie. I hesitate to imply any "tone" to his writing, since I got grilled on that in another thread, so I'll let you decide for yourself:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-f...r-cannes18.html


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post May-18-2004 16:14  United States
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NeoPhono
Übermensch



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: In Orbit
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11

quote:
Originally posted by arctic
To be fair though, he isn't making unbiased documentaries, he's making opinionated films that make a point. of course his own personal agenda is going to come through, because that's what the entire film is based on. I won't argue with the distortion point, I'm generally called a left winger by most people and I believe that Moore is pretty much the left's version of Rush Limbaugh. He's a shock jock, plain and simple.


The problem I see is that many times his movies are billed as journalistic documentaries or art house expose's. We all know that the average Joe will not go home and research what he sees on the screen, big or small, and that plays very much to the liking of Mr. Moore. People go to his movies with the idea that they will be shocked, but shocked by the truth, a truth which is hardly reality. I'm not sure what the solution is, since I don't think his movies should be outright banned. I don't know if a disclaimer is needed, or maybe just more truthful marketing, but people need to know that what Mr. Moore is selling is not in fact a piece of journalism, but a piece of propaganda.

Old Post May-18-2004 17:33  United States
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