quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Anyone find it odd to see all those people lining up to walk past Reagan's coffin? I mean the casket is closed for god sake, for all we know it's just decoy setup to keep the sheep busy.

Right. Just like every other wake in the world. Give me a good conspiracy theory.

It's kinda funny when you think of conservatives out cry when pictures were taken of soldiers flag draped caskets as a form of disrespect and an invasion of privacy. What about 40,000 people milling around a dead presidents coffin like a circus attraction. If that aint morbid curiosity I don't know what is.

___________________
GIGANTIC CUNT

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow It's kinda funny when you think of conservatives out cry when pictures were taken of soldiers flag draped caskets as a form of disrespect and an invasion of privacy. What about 40,000 people milling around a dead presidents coffin like a circus attraction. If that aint morbid curiosity I don't know what is.

I actually somewhat agree with you here. I promised myself I would hold off any criticism on Reagan out of respect for one of our Presidents, but I do tend to find a sense of hypocracy when we have forbid the public from seeing our slain soldiers flag-draped coffins vs. a public viewing of a flag-draped coffin of our former President.

I am certainly not arguing that we shouldn't pay our respects publicly to our former President. I am arguing against the Press censureship of slain soldiers.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Come on. You're comparing apples to boobies. The way the media focuses on coffins of slain soldiers--it serves to hurt morale during a time of a national security crisis. Reagan is a well-liked ex-president who died of natural causes. Both should be honored, but there's a clear difference in context.

What is so odd? Its like honoring any other famous person in world history, Princess Di, Kennedy, Ghandi, anyone... Its the same as you do with any other wake, you walk by and pay your last respects. Every time something isn't in your political views it doesn't have to be a conspiracy theory or some plot by the government.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Anyone find it odd to see all those people lining up to walk past Reagan's coffin? I mean the casket is closed for god sake, for all we know it's just decoy setup to keep the sheep busy.

there is nothing odd about paying respect to a man who's past. despite what you might think of the man, he touched a lot of people's lives.

I find it odd that you look down on those people. it doesn't suprise me, I just find it odd.

keep reenforcing my thoughts of you, its comforting.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 I actually somewhat agree with you here. I promised myself I would hold off any criticism on Reagan out of respect for one of our Presidents, but I do tend to find a sense of hypocracy when we have forbid the public from seeing our slain soldiers flag-draped coffins vs. a public viewing of a flag-draped coffin of our former President. I am certainly not arguing that we shouldn't pay our respects publicly to our former President. I am arguing against the Press censureship of slain soldiers.

WTF are you talking about?

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Originally posted by Q5echo WTF are you talking about?

What part of my statement is unclear to you?

I am stating that while it is wholly appropriate for the Press to show the flag-draped casket of our former President, as well as showing the public pay their respects, while on the other hand it is somewhat hypocritical to censure the Press from showing flag-draped caskets of our fallen soldiers from the current war.

I further clarified that I am not arguing that we should censure the President's casket from the press, if you logically follow my argument in that particular direction. Rather, that we should allow the Press to show without censureship the flag-draped caskets of the fallen soldiers who died for our country (in a somewhat similar manner as our former President). I find nothing odd with people paying respects to this man. I disagree with the majority of his decisions, yet I honor and deeply respect his place in American history. If I had lived in CA or D.C., I would likely pay my respects in person as well.

But again, that was not my argument. I hope my point is more clear to you now.

Shakka countered by stating that it was inappropriate to show the soldier's caskets during this time of war, because it would affect the country's overall morale and spirit. My response to his argument is that is exactly my point - if we decide to go to war, regardless of the correctness of our premises of doing so, I firmly believe the public has every bit a right to know exactly what we are getting into. This entails economic, foreign relations, moral and ethical. We did elect these individuals to make the wisest decisions for us. They are public servants. Therefore it is the right of the public to know exactly what our public servants have involved us with on every account. It is unprecedented for this Administration to attempt to hide the downsides of a monumental decision like a war, and I fully disagree with its censureship. War is hell, as they say, and this Administration has no right to put a fucking candy coat on that fact.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Shakka countered by stating that it was inappropriate to show the soldier's caskets during this time of war, because it would affect the country's overall morale and spirit. My response to his argument is that is exactly my point - if we decide to go to war, regardless of the correctness of our premises of doing so, I firmly believe the public has every bit a right to know exactly what we are getting into. This entails economic, foreign relations, moral and ethical. We did elect these individuals to make the wisest decisions for us. They are public servants. Therefore it is the right of the public to know exactly what our public servants have involved us with on every account. It is unprecedented for this Administration to attempt to hide the downsides of a monumental decision like a war, and I fully disagree with its censureship. War is hell, as they say, and this Administration has no right to put a fucking candy coat on that fact.

Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Shakka countered by stating that it was inappropriate to show the soldier's caskets during this time of war, because it would affect the country's overall morale and spirit. My response to his argument is that is exactly my point - if we decide to go to war, regardless of the correctness of our premises of doing so, I firmly believe the public has every bit a right to know exactly what we are getting into. This entails economic, foreign relations, moral and ethical. We did elect these individuals to make the wisest decisions for us. They are public servants. Therefore it is the right of the public to know exactly what our public servants have involved us with on every account. It is unprecedented for this Administration to attempt to hide the downsides of a monumental decision like a war, and I fully disagree with its censureship. War is hell, as they say, and this Administration has no right to put a fucking candy coat on that fact.

The public knows that soldiers die in wars. IMHO, the media loves to sensationalize things(as we all know), and showing coffins of slain soldiers doesn't do anything but prey on peoples' emotions. We know how many soldiers have died in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Showing me a coffin doesn't tell me anything other than that the media wants to cram death down my throat. Also, the fact that the media has historically been discouraged from showing coffins of slain soldiers should mean something. They're making a big outcry about it now, but I suggest their motives are more political since, as I said, the public already knows how many people have died in the war. What they are doing is trying to influence public opinion. Opus will disagree with me, and I agree with him that the public has a right to know--and like I said, the public knows it's a war and that people are going to die. That's an unpleasant truth. Do we really need to have coffins shoved in our face to get the message? I personally don't.

Another thing, perhaps it just shows more class and restraint to let the families of the slain soldiers be the first to have access to their loved ones' bodies/coffins? Let's show a little respect for the ones who are more emotionally involved. If my son/daughter was loaded in a plane in a coffin, I know I wouldn't want some scavenging media romping around the plane taking pictures of his/her coffin out of sheer respect for me and my family.

This is not a new action that "This administration" is doing. Even if it were, I think it's acceptable to show a little respect to fallen soldiers. It's OK people--it's not a Bush conspiracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka The public knows that soldiers die in wars. IMHO, the media loves to sensationalize things(as we all know), and showing coffins of slain soldiers doesn't do anything but prey on peoples' emotions. We know how many soldiers have died in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Showing me a coffin doesn't tell me anything other than that the media wants to cram death down my throat. Also, the fact that the media has historically been discouraged from showing coffins of slain soldiers should mean something. They're making a big outcry about it now, but I suggest their motives are more political since, as I said, the public already knows how many people have died in the war. What they are doing is trying to influence public opinion. Opus will disagree with me, and I agree with him that the public has a right to know--and like I said, the public knows it's a war and that people are going to die. That's an unpleasant truth. Do we really need to have coffins shoved in our face to get the message? I personally don't.

the point tho is that a death is more than a number. showing coffins puts a bit of perspective on death and show how cruel it is.

"600 us soldiers has died in iraq" -- sure that sucks, but 600 is nothing for freedom!

*pics of 600 coffins + their families crying* -- mmm perhaps it's not worth it...

really, if it weren't as bad, why are you so afraid of showing it?