I can't take you seriously with that Avatar.

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quote:

Originally posted by moth I can't take you seriously with that Avatar.

ditto

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Top 5:
1. R-Tem - Voiceless
2. New Order - Jetstream (Tom Neville Remix)
3. Pillow One - Ministry Of Love
4. Pulser - Point of Impact (Mike Koglin Remix)
5. Armin Van Buuren - Shivers (Christian Webber Mix)

* note to self, never ask question in here until I change my avatar.

Some people and their avatars. Sheesh.

quote:

Originally posted by GelatinPufF Some people and their avatars. Sheesh.

no comment ;p

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Top 5:
1. R-Tem - Voiceless
2. New Order - Jetstream (Tom Neville Remix)
3. Pillow One - Ministry Of Love
4. Pulser - Point of Impact (Mike Koglin Remix)
5. Armin Van Buuren - Shivers (Christian Webber Mix)

Yes as you mentioned it pretty much is trial and error, basically finding out what works for you and your style. For generic trance, you've got it pretty spot on, except maybe adding a reverb to the kick (even if it is dry). I'd say to add a small amount of reverb to a clap (not the attack portion of the clap, just the trail) before compressing it to really get the tail in there. Leads are generally made to be as fat as possible, so yes, a heavy reverb is useful, although not the only tool.

Reverbs are psychoacoustic in the sense that reverbs tend to make sounds go to the back of your mind without actually having to decrease the original volume. This is something to keep in mind if you want to keep a certain element in the foreground. A little 'verb is ok, but too much and you lose punchiness which in turn relegates the sound to the background.

"the magic formula"

time the pre delay. it doesn’t matter what reverb you use on what instrument, you will find that some sound better with some interments but at the same time you might be going for a totally different feel in the song. Really what matters the most is the timing on the pre delay. lets say you were listening to a band play in a room or on stage, what do you hear?


+--------------+
|..............| S = Source
|......S.......| U = You
|..............|
|..............|
|..............|
|..............|
|..............|
|......U.......|
+--------------+


you hear the clear unaltered source music first(because thats the shortest path of the source to your ears) followed by the reflection of the room. The time between the two is determined by how big the room is, and the placement of the instruments. lets assume that the shortest reflection is from the back wall to U, being the first reverb reflection your ears hear. So the closer the source is to the back of the room the short the pre-delay time is, and the closer to you and further away from the back of the room the longer the pre-delay is. WOW ISNT THAT GREAT!!! but what difference does that make? well by timing the pre-delay on the reverb you can take your dry mix and layer it front to back in the room. If you set it up like a band you would usually place the drums in the back, with the shortest pre-delay, the backup singers or melody guitar in the middle, and the lead singer in front(closest to you, longest pre-delay). so now you have a stereo image that also has depth. cool huh? BUT, there is a problem. if you arbitrarily place the instruments front to back without any rhyme or reason you will end up with reverb hits that are VERY noticeable, and turning up the reverb just a little bit will make it sound swamped. SO WHAT ON EARTH DO YOU DO??!?!? easy, you time the reverb so that it falls in time with the song. WELL HOW DO YOU DO THAT?!??!?!?! easy, you figure out the length of 1/4 note(1 beat) in ms then just divide by two again and again and again. Your ear cant distinguish two differnt hits after about 20 or so ms, so you should start around there. Here’s an example of the reverb times i use on a 136 BPM track:

(in ms)
441.1 1/4 th
220.5 1/8
110.2 1/16 lead vocals or lead instruments (lead synth)
055.1 1/32 backup instruments (padds or stings)
027.5 1/64 drums (clap hi-hat, cymbals)
013.7 1/128 background stuff (ambient synths or noise)
006.8 1/256


mixing like this will let you drown the instruments in reverb without getting the sound swampy. But more importantly it adds non-conflicting depth to the song , as opposed to just left and right.

i dont know does that make sence?

the first time i did it to one of my songs, changing all the reverb times, and then pressing play, the song literally jumped out at me, the synths were in my face, and the drums were filling the room.

but with all that said, ferry corsten doesnt do this, so ... keep that in mind when making a track, this technique is used on major recordings and not necessarily on club friendly tracks.

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Last edited by Bondor on Aug-29-2004 at 07:45

now that's some really usefull information bondor, thanks alot

how do you find the length of 1/4?

imo I think you should post that info in the "exploration of sound" stickythread so this info doesn't get lost

I just tested this out and man, it does make a difference.
when it comes to dancemusic it might be a good idea to not follow this 100% all out but if a mix sounds muddy/messy then this is a perfect trick that might solve the problem

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quote:

Originally posted by davedresden i suggest getting the gabriel & dresden prog-a-minute. in 3 easy steps you too could change the face of dance music. batteries not included. - dave

Last edited by Vizay on Aug-29-2004 at 11:11

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Originally posted by Vizay now that's some really usefull information bondor, thanks alot just one question, what's the best and most acurate way to get the timing of one beat?

i use a calculator.... you just find the BPM and divide it into 60sec

60sec/140BPM = the length of one beat = .4285, then just convert to MS 428.5 ms

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quote:

Originally posted by Vizay imo I think you should post that info in the "exploration of sound" stickythread so this info doesn't get lost

haha! ok!

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I'm gonna do the work for people and post a list of diferent timings at different bpm's too there when youre done with your post so people don't need to do that

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quote:

Originally posted by davedresden i suggest getting the gabriel & dresden prog-a-minute. in 3 easy steps you too could change the face of dance music. batteries not included. - dave