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Originally posted by Q5echo because France won't let their schoolgirls wear headress's secularism...damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. it might not even be about that, but man is it stupid. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1293352,00.html

I'm surprised that they actually know about the recent controversy in France. That being said, the decision to ban headscarves was a stupid one -- there's no need for it. Headscarves don't hurt anyone -- and nor do Sikh turbans, Muslim hats(I can't recall their proper name) or Christian jewellery. Banning them isn't really 'secularism', I'm an avowed secularist and I think that it's going too far -- it's a restriction on religious freedom and doesn't really achieve anything other than alienating people.

Last edited by arctic on Aug-29-2004 at 08:21

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Originally posted by arctic I'm surprised that they actually know about the recent controversy in France. That being said, the decision to ban headscarves was a stupid one -- there's no need for it. Headscarves don't hurt anyone -- and nor do Sikh turbans, Muslim hats(I can't recall their proper name) or Christian jewellery. Banning them isn't really 'secularism', I'm an avowed secularist and I think that it's going too far -- it's a restriction on religious freedom and doesn't really achieve anything other than alienating people.

I understand your point of view, I'm too a secularist but I think that you haven't understand the law (the journalist too), because the religion's signs must be removed ONLY at school, not outside. You say that heardscarves don't hurt anything, but the young girls who are forced to bring this, who refuse to do sport at school and to be mixed with the other pupils because the religion is most important than the school (and so the Republic's law), this young girls are hurt, they don't respect the Republic's and egality's principles, and the Republic answer with this law.

The religion is one of the principal causes of the war, and that's all. Kill the religions!!

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Originally posted by Transa.E.P The religion is one of the principal causes of the war, and that's all. Kill the religions!!

aw... probably THE solution, but i don't think billions of people in the world will agree with you.

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17.12.11 TBC @ Paris

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Originally posted by d-miurge I understand your point of view, I'm too a secularist but I think that you haven't understand the law (the journalist too), because the religion's signs must be removed ONLY at school, not outside. You say that heardscarves don't hurt anything, but the young girls who are forced to bring this, who refuse to do sport at school and to be mixed with the other pupils because the religion is most important than the school (and so the Republic's law), this young girls are hurt, they don't respect the Republic's and egality's principles, and the Republic answer with this law.

so why does it bring no problems in holland, and it does suddenly in france?

your talking about sporting? and so what if a person does not want Participate, school is all about maths and languages and chemistry etc. Maybe if someone wants to be a coach or something ya his/her choice.

I never noticed any muslim or jewish or pakistani that didn't wanne mix in with other people.

i think france just acting stupid, and i believe france have more muslims than in holland right? so they will only make a big problem out of this.

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Originally posted by Octanesyco Greetings. My name is Casey. You can call me Moose. -Moose

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Originally posted by Massive84 so why does it bring no problems in holland, and it does suddenly in france? your talking about sporting? and so what if a person does not want Participate, school is all about maths and languages and chemistry etc. Maybe if someone wants to be a coach or something ya his/her choice. I never noticed any muslim or jewish or pakistani that didn't wanne mix in with other people. i think france just acting stupid, and i believe france have more muslims than in holland right? so they will only make a big problem out of this.

You can't compare Holland and France, the situation is different, we are 60 millions while you are 15 millions, and a fanatic part exist, and create this polemic, because for the others people (from all religions), this law is not a problem...
And each pupils must do sport, it's an obligation when you are in a public school, and so if you refuse, it's the same thing than if you you refuse ALL the matters, it's normal in my point of view...

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Originally posted by Massive84 so why does it bring no problems in holland, and it does suddenly in france?

Probably because France has a much larger muslim population.

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your talking about sporting? and so what if a person does not want Participate, school is all about maths and languages and chemistry etc. Maybe if someone wants to be a coach or something ya his/her choice.

Physical education is among one of the subjects in primary/middle/high schools, and you can't choose whether you will take it or not, unless you have a medical hendicap which tells you not to.

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I never noticed any muslim or jewish or pakistani that didn't wanne mix in with other people.

Maybe, but it is sort of a common knowledge that countries with large immigrant populations like France tend to have those people join up in small ghettoes seperated from the rest of the population.

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i think france just acting stupid, and i believe france have more muslims than in holland right? so they will only make a big problem out of this.

Well, if they didn't have too many radical muslim idiots, they wouldn't have to pass this law in the first place.

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1+1=10

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Probably because France has a much larger muslim population. Physical education is among one of the subjects in primary/middle/high schools, and you can't choose whether you will take it or not, unless you have a medical hendicap which tells you not to. Maybe, but it is sort of a common knowledge that countries with large immigrant populations like France tend to have those people join up in small ghettoes seperated from the rest of the population. Well, if they didn't have too many radical muslim idiots, they wouldn't have to pass this law in the first place.

i don't know how to do these big quotes, but il reply on your answer, which i find intresting.

A large population requirs more care imo, banning something is not caring but punishing, especially if it is doing no harm at all, i consider not participating in sports not harmfull.

you can sport with a headdress, i have seen it and no problem with that, if a girl refuses to sport either way, it's not the headdress problem or religion, but the girl self, maybe not alot of self confidence.

I agree with your third point, this happens here in holland as well, but if i talk about school, this harldy happend, not sure about france though, i think the kids are a bit more radical there.

Beeing radical is stupid yes, but banning something that represent a culture and religion would make these people more furious and radical right? so what good does this give?

if you go bann tour de france, wine, and all the other stuff that represent france for years, am sure that the frensh population wouldn't sit down doing nothing..

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Originally posted by Octanesyco Greetings. My name is Casey. You can call me Moose. -Moose

If the muslims don't want to be French, what are they doing in France?

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Originally posted by Massive84 you can sport with a headdress, i have seen it and no problem with that, if a girl refuses to sport either way, it's not the headdress problem or religion, but the girl self, maybe not alot of self confidence.

The problem is that the girls REFUSE to do sport like normal pupils, not because they hate sport, but because the "religion" forbid that, and the Republic can't accept to be behind the religion.

Edit : when you see a girl who has an headscarve, you think :"Ow, that's a normal girl" or "Ow, it's a muslim" ?

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Originally posted by Arbiter If the muslims don't want to be French, what are they doing in France?

its not about that at all. its about freedom of expression in one of the most secular countries in Europe and the natural conflict it has with one of the most parochial religions of the world.