Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Coalition of the bribed
  Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:
Coalition of the bribed

What a jewel.


Linkage

quote:
Iraq Amnesia
October 8, 2004; Page A16

Judging from the current Iraq debate, you might think Saddam Hussein didn't use poison gas on the Kurds and the Iranians in the 1980s. Or that 500,000 American troops hadn't been sent to the Gulf in 1990-91 to reverse his invasion of Kuwait. Or that Saddam hadn't tried to assassinate former President George H.W. Bush in 1993, or long harbored one of the bombers who attacked the World Trade Center that year.

It might also be easy to forget that Saddam never came clean about his weapons of mass destruction, resulting in Bill Clinton's Desert Fox bombing of 1998 and the ejection of U.N. inspectors. Or that he necessitated a huge U.S. troop presence in the region, which Osama bin Laden cited in his 1998 fatwa as one of his primary grievances against America.

It's clear why John Kerry doesn't want to talk about these things, having decided for now that Iraq was "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time." Count us a bit mystified, however, that the incumbent hasn't done a better job putting his Iraq policy in this context. Fortunately for President Bush, Congressional Oil for Food hearings and Charles Duelfer's final weapons inspections report for the CIA have come along this week to remind us all that the "containment" of Saddam was neither as blissful as certain partisans remember it, nor even sustainable.

"By 2000-2001, Saddam had managed to mitigate many of the effects of sanctions and undermine their international support," Mr. Duelfer writes. "Iraq was within striking distance of a de facto end to the sanctions regime."

We realize that some of our media friends think the salient news here is the old news: that Saddam did not possess large stockpiles of WMDs when Coalition forces invaded in March 2003. But Mr. Duelfer explicitly rejects the facile conclusion that therefore sanctions were working. Among his other findings, based in part on interviews with Saddam himself and other senior regime figures:
• Saddam believed weapons of mass destruction were essential to the preservation of his power, especially during the Iran-Iraq and 1991 Gulf wars.

• He engaged in strategic deception intended to suggest that he retained WMD.

• He fully intended to resume real WMD production after the expected lifting of U.N. sanctions, and he maintained weapons programs that put him in "material breach" of U.N. resolutions including 1441.

• And he instituted an epic bribery scheme aimed primarily at three of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, with the intent of having them help lift those sanctions.


"Saddam personally approved and removed all names of voucher recipients," under the Oil for Food program, Mr. Duelfer writes. Alleged beneficiaries of such bribes include individuals in China, as well as some with close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin and French President Jacques Chirac.

As Congressmen Chris Shays's House International Relations Committee heard in testimony on Tuesday, France, Russia and China did in fact work hard to help Saddam skirt and escape sanctions. One Iraqi intelligence report uncovered by Mr. Duelfer says that a French politician assured Saddam in a letter that France would use its U.N. veto against any U.S. effort to attack Iraq -- as indeed France later threatened to do.

Evidence also continues to mount that U.N. Oil for Food Program director Benon Sevan was among those on Saddam's payroll. (He denies it.) And contrary to earlier claims that Secretary General Kofi Annan's son Kojo severed connections with the Swiss-based firm Cotecna prior to it winning its Oil for Food inspections contract, we now know that Kojo was kept on the company payroll for another year. We eagerly await the promised interim report from the U.N.'s Paul Volcker-led Oil for Food review panel, and hope in the interests of an informed electorate that it can be delivered soon.

But there are already plenty of facts on the table to support one conclusion. To wit: Even if one accepts the desirability of some kind of "global test" before America acts militarily, U.N. Security Council approval can't be it. There was never any chance that this "coalition of the bribed" was going to explicitly endorse regime change, or the presumed alternative of another 12 years of economic sanctions. "Politically," writes Mr. Duelfer, "the Iraqis were losing their stigma" by 2001.

The sanctions-were-working crowd also ignores that Saddam never would have readmitted weapons inspectors without the kind of U.S. troop mobilization that isn't feasible with any frequency. For President Bush to have backed off in 2003 without unambiguous disarmament would have meant the end once and for all of any real threat of force behind "containment."

Senator John McCain summed it up well at the Republican Convention: "Those who criticize that decision [to go to war in Iraq] would have us believe that the choice was between a status quo that was well enough left alone and war. But there was no status quo to be left alone." Supporters of his Iraq policy are hoping that Mr. Bush finds a similar voice tonight.

Old Post Oct-08-2004 17:18  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Shakka Click here to Send Shakka a Private Message Add Shakka to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Epicurus
Dark Proggy House Beats



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: New Brunswick, NJ, US / Montreal, QC, Canada

Decent article at best. The reason why I say this is two fold. First of all, some of the points the author is attempting to make are contentious. Some sources point to spying being the reason that led to the ejection of inspectors in 1998. The bribing scandal is by no means official. We don't know for sure whether France was involved or not. His attempt to connect Bin Laden's fatwa and the US's gracious and continued presence in the Arab peninsula to, and I'm reading between the lines here, protect Kuwait and not for (or at least including) OBVIOUS vested interests reeks of cheesiness. Anyway, I won't bother to post sources to back these minor points because these are secondary to the main point i'd like to make, which is this:

Why did Bush lie about the imminent threat of WMD being used by Iraq against the US? (whether it be directly or through the use of terrorists)

And please, don't tell me he didn't know they didn't have any. This is an assumption that I have no qualms about making. He was exhausting all possible means to attempt to make a connection between Iraq and WMD (including using archaic and forged documentation) when there was none. THIS is the point that everyone is infuriated about, and for two reasons. One, because he misled Congress and the public in believing that Saddam's regime was a direct and immediate threat to the US. Two, and in my opinion more importantly, it points to the fact that there MUST have been other interests in Iraq for the US to pursue, that have absolutely nothing to do with what the author of this article is pointing to. And do you know why I say that? Because those reasons that the author gave can be given to a much larger extent to dozens of dictators around the world with larger capabilities of producing WMDs. Why Iraq? Why did the US HAVE to remove THIS man from power. Why not leave him there just like so many other dictators that are actually producing WMDs NOW and that are oppressing their people even more? Why do anything?

A posteriori justification of this war by the right is becoming more and more creative, but regardless of how you spin it, this war is still being faught on unjustifiable grounds.

Old Post Oct-08-2004 18:13  Lebanon
Click Here to See the Profile for Epicurus Click here to Send Epicurus a Private Message Visit Epicurus's homepage! Add Epicurus to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
EvilDust
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2004
Location:

"We seem to be sanction-happy as a government," Cheney said. "The problem is that the good Lord didn't see fit to always put oil and gas resources where there are democratic governments."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...r/cheney_iran_4

Old Post Oct-08-2004 18:55  Philippines
Click Here to See the Profile for EvilDust Click here to Send EvilDust a Private Message Add EvilDust to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
biznology
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2000
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by EvilDust
"We seem to be sanction-happy as a government," Cheney said. "The problem is that the good Lord didn't see fit to always put oil and gas resources where there are democratic governments."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...r/cheney_iran_4


yeah, Dick - but by that logic he did create the vast need for oil and gas in democratic societies|


___________________
'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

Old Post Oct-08-2004 19:06  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for biznology Click here to Send biznology a Private Message Add biznology to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
LiquidX
It's All OvA!



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: In Ur Mind

quote:
Originally posted by EvilDust
"We seem to be sanction-happy as a government," Cheney said. "The problem is that the good Lord didn't see fit to always put oil and gas resources where there are democratic governments."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...r/cheney_iran_4


Cheney tries to sound so relegious, when in fact he sounds so barbarically evil!! .. Jeeezz.. it scares me how this two morons are carrying the conservative religious on their side ( me been a religious person ).. does scare the heck out of me, and it bothers me @ the same time!


___________________
Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

Old Post Oct-08-2004 19:10  Chile
Click Here to See the Profile for LiquidX Click here to Send LiquidX a Private Message Visit LiquidX's homepage! Add LiquidX to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
josh4
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: New York City

registration and subscription based news sites suxx0r

Old Post Oct-08-2004 20:11  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for josh4 Click here to Send josh4 a Private Message Add josh4 to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Coalition of the bribed
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

 
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackTrack 2 from Fonarev - 2002.06.17 Live @ Atmosphere Radioshow [2024] [0]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackGroup Therapy - "My Own Worst Enemy" (Yoshi & OMB's Womb Recording Tribal Mix) [2005]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 13:37.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!