I think religion is ok as something to be inspirational about, as a set of guidelines to live ones life, but when people start using religion as an excuse to murder rape and pillage, that is when it goes wrong.

I think a few things that i personally think would help.

- I don't think anything should be done in the name of a god.

- Religious books shouldn't be taken so literally.

- Holy war is an oxymoron. Why would a creator want its disciples to kill each other?

- People switch religions like they switch old tennis shoes. People should realize that all religion is worshipping the same thing, the creator of everything, whatever that is.

- Killers need to stop thinking that god let them kill people, eg. "god willing we will stop the infidels". With free will comes the responsibility of living with the consequences of being free.

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Religion is problematic in my view because it fundamentally indicates a failure to use good decision-making skills on certain issues. When this is accepted as normal, or even positive, it is natural that those same irrational decision-making methods will be used to make decisions about all matter of things: including whether or not you should blow yourself up and kill a bunch of innocent people.

The problem, as I see it, is thus. In order to believe in any religion you must either:

1. Actually believe that facts and reason dictate that your religion is the best possible guidebook to living a good life, and/or is the most plausible explanation of the origins of the universe as we perceive it.

or

2. Choose arbitarily to have "faith" in the religion based on irrational means of decision-making, such as emotions.

The former indicates a dangerous level of intellectual incompetence, and the latter indicates a dangerous level of intellectual laziness. In both cases, there are serious flaws in the series of decisions which led up to the individual choosing to believe in a given faith. This should not be looked upon as acceptable. Rather, society should seek to eradicate this type of poor decision-making in favor of basing decisions on informed factual analysis using valid deductive and inductive reasoning skills. Under such conditions, religion could not survive.

I think that, basically, the problem behind religion is its organizational aspect. If religion were allowed to be a "free-flowing" though process, there would be less problems. However, as Arbiter pointed out, religion is flawed because it does not leave room for decision-making skills. I think if religion were less institutionalized, people would like it better. No one likes to be told what to do, and this is part of the problem with religion.

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

My view: Multiple religions in the world are fine, and the problem is that one religion sometimes tries to push its beliefs onto another. My rabbi tonight said something tonight that I thought fit this perfectly, and he said something like people should not have to feel they need to convert someone thinking they are not worshipping God the correct way. Various cultures pray/chant/worship/etc. in different ways, so as long as God allowed those people to be created there is no need to "save" them.

Brainwashing at it's finest

religion has both positive and negative aspects, but when it turns to fanatism, it's REALLY bad as with most everything that goes overboard

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Religion is problematic in my view because it fundamentally indicates a failure to use good decision-making skills on certain issues. When this is accepted as normal, or even positive, it is natural that those same irrational decision-making methods will be used to make decisions about all matter of things: including whether or not you should blow yourself up and kill a bunch of innocent people. The problem, as I see it, is thus. In order to believe in any religion you must either: 1. Actually believe that facts and reason dictate that your religion is the best possible guidebook to living a good life, and/or is the most plausible explanation of the origins of the universe as we perceive it. or 2. Choose arbitarily to have "faith" in the religion based on irrational means of decision-making, such as emotions. The former indicates a dangerous level of intellectual incompetence, and the latter indicates a dangerous level of intellectual laziness. In both cases, there are serious flaws in the series of decisions which led up to the individual choosing to believe in a given faith. This should not be looked upon as acceptable. Rather, society should seek to eradicate this type of poor decision-making in favor of basing decisions on informed factual analysis using valid deductive and inductive reasoning skills. Under such conditions, religion could not survive.

I agree for the most part, but I think you've overlooked another possiblilty. It could be rational for someone to believe in god/religion if all the evidence they've been exposed to supports that conclusion. Not everyone has the priviledge of education, the internet, or other sources of information outside their family or social circle. Although I feel sorry for these people, there probably exists a substantial amount outside of developed/developing countries.

Last edited by .montecarlo. on Sep-25-2004 at 23:11

quote:

Originally posted by .montecarlo. I agree for the most part, but I think you've overlooked another possiblilty. It could be rational for someone to believe in god/religion if all the evidence they've been exposed to supports that conclusion. Not everyone has the priviledge of education, the internet, or other sources of information outside their family or social circle. Although I feel sorry for these people, there probably exists a substantial amount outside of developed/developing countries.

You make a good point, but lack of educational opportunity isn't a good thing, either. So it would still hold that wherever religion is found, there is a serious problem underlying it.

quote:

Originally posted by hooknife Politics has a way of just fucking the world up good! Look around, most of the big issue have something to do with one political world view not liking another, it makes me want to puke. In the famous words of Rodney King...."Why can't we all just get along?"

Ya I agree.




edit: bah notice I changed his words above

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Last edited by Yoepus on Sep-27-2004 at 06:32

quote:

Originally posted by sisterbliss religion has both positive and negative aspects, but when it turns to fanatism, it's REALLY bad as with most everything that goes overboard

That's true. It's true for every religion. I like to assume that anything that has both a negative and positve aspect was created by the human mind and not by some outer powerful divinity, assuming there is one. Thinking that way eliminates any type of respect for every religion. But the followers are still respected.

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*shrug*

If you take away religion people will just find new ways to be stupid ...

My distate for religion is not derived from antithapy towards the concept of religion itself, rather it comes from the realisation that religion is where the majority of the idiots congregate.

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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Sep-27-2004 at 15:42