quote:

Originally posted by Aristronica Story here I just think it's interesting that Russia did it and US hasn't...

That shows that US only care about themselves, and don't give a shit about global warming.

And to Russia it don't mean only a "good image", they will sell rights of emissions they don't use and make a profit. As long as Kyoto Protocol is respected, I think it's a win-win situation.

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The Earth historically goes through cycles. I don't think there's been any true, substantial proof that the United States of America has damned this world's climate and society as much as you would like to believe.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

It's not the US only fault, it's something that every industrialized country has done. And I already know that Earth has climatic cycles, but don't you think that humanity has done some shit and fucked the enviroment? You know, like cutting trees or emitting shitloads of gas.

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quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On The Earth historically goes through cycles. I don't think there's been any true, substantial proof that the United States of America has damned this world's climate and society as much as you would like to believe.

i think its more to do with the rest of the world trying to help the planet by not polluting the fuck out of it (and thus in turn saving a bit of fossil fuel along the way, as well as reducing illnesses such as asthma and broncitis globally), but the US, who are the worlds largest users of fossil fuel will not join in. they are all too busy driving around in their vastly over-powered cars to give a shit. not to mention they don't even see the effects of theirr own pollution, as it gets blown over to places like the UK, iceland and the rest of europe.

yes, it isn't just the US's fault, but the rest of the world is trying to do something about it.

open your eyes america, see past your own nose for once.

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MUGGETS

While I do believe that the United States should independently pursue environmental reforms, I don't believe entering into Kyoto is necessary for that to be accomplished.

I agree that something needs to be done - and I think it's a damn shame that the US doesn't seem to want to participate in this effort, as you obviously have major countries such as Russia on the forefront, but I would just like to point out that there's still much we don't understand about our world. There just isn't much proof that what could be done would have any sort of drastic impact on this planet, our planet, especially if it's just the natural cycle of things that the polar icecaps will melt and the atmosphere will develop into a state of non-existence or into a nature that is poisonous to humans and other oxygen-dependent beings. Some things are just inevitable - especially at our current state of understanding and technology.

I presumptuously say 'our' planet as though it was made for us...truthfully, we seem to be far removed from even the status of 'caretakers'

Not that this couldn't be changed, but at our current state, it just seems very distant from the reality at hand; especially when the world can only concentrate efforts on waging war - another inevitability in the cycle of things.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On , but I would just like to point out that there's still much we don't understand about our world. There just isn't much proof that what could be done would have any sort of drastic impact on this planet,

true, but where's the harm in trying? there wasn't much proof 50 years ago that smoking gave you cancer, but people ignored it and look what happened. we can only make informed descisions based on what we know, and what we know at the moment is that using the scientific principles we have learnt so far, fossil fuel emissions have a harmful effect on our planets environment and ecology, not to mention human health. what we have learnt now, is that because we spent years using leaded fuel, there are now more cases of schizophrenia, this is just one of the health issues related to the worlds fossil fuel uses that gets drowned in the environment argument.

kyoto may or may not do the trick, but surely it is worth a try? or would it take the lining out of bush's pockets too much?

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MUGGETS

quote:

Originally posted by Aristronica Story here I just think it's interesting that Russia did it and US hasn't...

It's a political document that has nothing to do with the envionment.

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Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

quote:

Originally posted by tu_face true, but where's the harm in trying? there wasn't much proof 50 years ago that smoking gave you cancer, but people ignored it and look what happened. we can only make informed descisions based on what we know, and what we know at the moment is that using the scientific principles we have learnt so far, fossil fuel emissions have a harmful effect on our planets environment and ecology, not to mention human health. what we have learnt now, is that because we spent years using leaded fuel, there are now more cases of schizophrenia, this is just one of the health issues related to the worlds fossil fuel uses that gets drowned in the environment argument. kyoto may or may not do the trick, but surely it is worth a try? or would it take the lining out of bush's pockets too much?

We don't know what the harm in trying is just yet. But that's just it - we have no idea as to how attempting to drastically change our environment might turn out. It may sound like a really good thing, but as you pointed out, when we don't know all the outcomes, foreseeable or not, terrible things can occur. It may be worth the try - it may not be, time is the only one who can tell. Terrible things have been done for the greatest of intents, take preserving the environment in Klamath Falls, Oregon for example - when taken to extremes, environmental preservation has shown to be detrimental to the people living right now, and I believe those people have a reserved priority.

We will survive either way - humans must, otherwise we are just not worthy to be this planet's dominating species. Let the caps melt - we will live underwater. Let the atmosphere become poison - we will live in bubbles. We will survive.

It's truly a shame that all the truances mentioned in this thread will go universally ignored. All we can do though, is step-by-step clean up after ourselves. Don't dump things anywhere you like, pick up garbage when you see it, start a compost pile, dispose of chemicals appropriately - if people just did this, we wouldn't be as bad-off as we are. It's easy to just blame major corporations for our environmental woes, but that's just like blaming America for the world's problems - the US may be responsible for 35% of Global pollution, but where did the other 65% go to? That's surely the majority (even though things really aren't proportional). It comes down to personal responsibility - people so easily disregard this in exchange for a scapegoat.

[/Devil's Advocate]

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On We don't know what the harm in trying is just yet. But that's just it - we have no idea as to how attempting to drastically change our environment might turn out. It may sound like a really good thing, but as you pointed out, when we don't know all the outcomes, foreseeable or not, terrible things can occur. It may be worth the try - it may not be, time is the only one who can tell. Terrible things have been done for the greatest of intents, take preserving the environment in Klamath Falls, Oregon for example - when taken to extremes, environmental preservation has shown to be detrimental to the people living right now, and I believe those people have a reserved priority. We will survive either way - humans must, otherwise we are just not worthy to be this planet's dominating species. Let the caps melt - we will live underwater. Let the atmosphere become poison - we will live in bubbles. We will survive. It's truly a shame that all the truances mentioned in this thread will go universally ignored. All we can do though, is step-by-step clean up after ourselves. Don't dump things anywhere you like, pick up garbage when you see it, start a compost pile, dispose of chemicals appropriately - if people just did this, we wouldn't be as bad-off as we are. It's easy to just blame major corporations for our environmental woes

great post

quote:

the US may be responsible for 35% of Global pollution, but where did the other 65% go to? That's surely the majority (even though things really aren't proportional). It comes down to personal responsibility - people so easily disregard this in exchange for a scapegoat. [/Devil's Advocate]

the fact remains that less than 5% of the worlds population creates 35% of the worlds total pollution. in my books at least, this is totally unacceptable, and they should try to do something about it instead of flipping the middle finger at the rest of the world.

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MUGGETS

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On The Earth historically goes through cycles. I don't think there's been any true, substantial proof that the United States of America has damned this world's climate and society as much as you would like to believe.

based on the data i've seen, i disagree.