As promised, I'm starting a new thread that refers to the perception of one party's voters versus the other, and the relations of extremists with either party. This thread came off of the conversation I'm having with Speed here. So I'll post Speed's post with my reply throughout:

quote:

Jesus Christ!The Republican Party does not have the Jesus Christ Logo Because traditional American values don't need to have anything to do with religion!The Republicans don't get it either, they just get it a lil bit more than the Democrats..... In the midwest and south, there is a building mentality that the Democratic party defends those who exhibit lousy choices in life and that those with all the answers and most logical views are a long list of Hollywood celebrities and left-wing money-bags like George Soros.....

Tell me something - how can someone like George Soros be so villified so easily, yet all the corporate bigwigs and moneybags who've supported Bush be so easily dismissed? What's the difference in their minds?

quote:

When people listen to the views of people like Michael Moore, George Soros etc, they hear contempt and disdain for people who work hard for a living, mothers that raise children and people that happen to like shooting their food once in awhile....... Kerry tried to distance himself from these people, but he did not do so with any credibility whatsoever....as was evidenced by Michael Moore sitting RIGHT NEXT TO a former President during the DNC convention.. Moore, for better or worse should have been watching the convention on a 13" monitor in the basement...(Or maybe in a donut shop down the street) As I've said before, it's about perception not reality. It's also about results, not intentions....

Yes, perhaps Kerry wasn't as successful in distancing himself with these folks. Let's be clear first, however, we are both not directly or indirectly stating that these perceptions were the primary factors that did Kerry in and propelled Bush forward - that would be extremely shortsighted, yes?

With that in mind, what I would like to mention is the clear difference in the Kerry campaign vs. the Bush campaign in pandering to the extremist folks on their side. The Democrats were, no doubt selective that they isolated people whom were too far to the left like Moore. True, Moore was sittin' in the box during the Convention, but nothing, I MEAN NOTHING was gonna stop that loudmouth from being exposed on TV. The fucking sensationalistic media LOVES that guy, and they were gonna plaster his picture all over the place no matter how much the Dems. would try to keep him at arm's length.

The Republicans, however, reached beyond right to hit the hardcore Falwell, Robertson, and beyond fringe Christian fundamentalist movement. This is no secret, and was one of Rove's primary missions for this election (some like Josh Marshall would argue it was Rove's TOP mission). If you think I'm lying, do a google search on anti-gay pamplets that were handed out prior to the election - some came DIRECTLY from the RNC. That's nothing shy of fucked up.

Yes, Moore was critical of Bush, yes the media has this stupid love-fest with this guy, but if you listened to him he was also critical of Kerry (he endorsed Clark, but never Kerry). Yet Kerry and his supporters (and critics of Bush) got painted with being Moore types. This just is not accurate. I would rather put Moore in the "anyone but Bush" crowd, rather than a firm Kerry supporter, which he clearly was not.

Yet Bush clearly pandered to Christian fundies. Can you deny this, or that it was the ultra right fundies which was necessary to make the percentage difference in this election? Wasn't the figure of Evangelicals comin' out this election something like 3 million higher than the 2000 election?

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In many cases, I see that while they have good intentions, the programs supported mainly by Democrats have "less than ideal" results to say the least...... So I view them as being out of touch with moral values because they don't realize that reality doesn't care about your intentions....

Such as?

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There's a slogan that applies here that's at least partially based in reality.... "Democrats view compassion by how many people are on government assistance while Republicans view compassion by how many no longer need it."

Then why did Clinton slash the welfare program himself?

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I think it's far better when people can find the jobs to earn their own way than for them to be reliant on handouts..... Anything I can do to foster the environment where they do have access to jobs (worldwide, not just here in the US) instead of government handouts as their sole means of survival, I'll support..... The system that does that the best is a free market economy. The system that is the worst is socalism

I don't argue for socialism, and I think you're either being disingenuous or are misunderstanding me if that's what you interpret. However, when over 4 million people go into poverty under 1 presidential term, and when millions of folks lose their health insurance and can't afford to get back on it, and when the income gap is slowly increasing between the upper and lower class, something more than just a simplistic answer of a "free market society" that is supposed to solve all answers is highly necessary.

quote:

Why even try to ask a question completely out of context to what the Republican Party stands for. The party lays out its morals position. If the Christians want to believe in this party then maybe this is why: quote: "Voters rejected the party of gay activists, radical feminists, the Hollywood elite, pornographers, death-peddlers, anti-Christian bigots and apostate Catholics." Taken from: Source: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...us/whose_values

That's some selective reading there, Speed - what else does that article say?:

quote:

"The religious right has successfully gotten out there shaping personal piety issues — civil unions, abortion — as almost the total content of 'moral values,'" Edgar said. "And yet you can't read the Old Testament without knowing God was concerned about the environment, war and peace, poverty. God doesn't want 45 million Americans without health care."

Interesting. Why does the Christian Right seem to avoid this concept?

My point here is that if the Christian Right is merely going on these issues which somehow supercede the many great societal humanitarian issues taught not just by Jesus but throughout the Bible, then that is truly mindboggling, which is exactly what the article states that you cited. And once again, I applaud the likes of Rove and the rest of the Republicans for keeping this group together, despite the Biblical contradictions to their own vote.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...