i love this. yet this thread's purpose is not necessarily about the subgenre (or maybe even genre in itself) known as minimal, but rather it's origins. they seem unclear to me.

we have techno, Derrick May, in the ~'70s. fine. but what was first just 'techno' is what is now sort of known as detroit techno. most styles of techno have a name that define their homeland (ie. german, swedish, italian techno) or have rather straightforward characterization (tribal techno, hard techno, acid techno) but minimal techno, or minimal and it's derivatives (click, glitch, microhouse and such) seem rather airborne. it seems to have it's strongsuit in germany, close with german techno and german electro.

so we have richie hawtin. we have the fact that he'd sneak over to US when he was a no-one, along with close friends, preaching the words that even though derrick may, atkins, saunderson and other figures were the pioneers of techno, that era was over, and these people were not here anymore. they were touring the world. saying it was time to evolve. you can't talk about minimal techno without mentioning richie, so... is richie hawtin the father of minimal techno? someone enlighten me please.

where was minimal (techno) born? who gave birth to it? when?

just something that was itching in the back of my mind for a while...

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I'm not sure if there was a so-called "birth" of minimal techno, maybe just a progression of all the Detroit, Italian, German etc.. Techno into one.

Richie Hawtin is definitely a pioneer and innovator, no doubt about that. I'm not sure if he's the first or not.

BTW Luke Slater's style is awesome, check him out if you like minimal techno

going from italian or german techno into minimal doesn't really sound like a natural progression. still, if it was, it has to start somewhere.

for instance, to my knowledge, the creation of trance came from natural progression of electro and techno into more ambiental style, which eventually came melodic, and by the early 90s was labeled trance. but you can find information claiming who had a hand in what, and a certain record by the german duo Dance2Trance that seemed to earn the style its name.

kudos for the recommendation, will check it out.

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Well you've got a point about the progression from hard German or Detroit techno to minimal, but maybe there was a person like Juan Atkins or Derrick May or Frankie Bones who made a "minimal" track to see what it sounded like, someone else heard it and it spiraled from there.

Of course you did suggest German electro and I'm sure Kraftwerk has some influences as well as many New Wave 80's bands (New Order, Depeche Mode, Trio, etc..)

A cumulnation of all these sounds probably fostered the advent of minimalism techno.

plus "minimal techno" just sounds like an oxymoron. Probably someone who loved the 4/4 hardbeat of techno but said "nah its too gritty and hard. How can I make it sound soft and minimal-like?"

Thus was born minimal-techno

This is the best I could find:

quote:

When house and techno first came on the scene in the mid-'80s, productions were minimal out of necessity. As the art of sampling and programming developed, the music became more layered and professional sounding — a progression according to some, but an unnecessary crossover move to others. Reacting against these increasingly dense productions, Minimalist Techno figures cleared their productions of almost everything except pointed drum programs and stark sequencer or synthesizer patterns. Detroit figures like Rob Hood, Jeff Mills, and Plastikman led the way, with later figures including Surgeon, Oliver Ho, and Stewart Walker also contributing to the new idiom.

I think your question might be better answered here though, since there are a lot of minimal teck heads there.

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^^ I think that quote kinda sums it up. Techno has always been minimal and loop based, Detroit-based tech notoriously so. European techno was probably more closely linked to acid-house than American techno originally, hence the harder, 909-based edge. American techno, as I understand it, is more closely related to house music, hence the more percussive, loop-based sound. Minimal techno, on both sides of the Atlantic, is just a minimalist expression of the basic elements of the techno sound. Every musical movement, afterall, has minimalist artists, producers and composers.

quote:

going from italian or german techno into minimal doesn't really sound like a natural progression.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Italian techno" (please tell me you're not talking about Mauro Picotto ) but Germany has always had a thriving minimal scene. Even now, a lot of the best minimal-tech / tech-house stuff is coming out of Germany, Berlin especially (check out Michael Mayer's Kompakt label for instance). German techno (or European techno more generally) isn't just about Chris Liebing and that hard, pounding sound.

quote:

Richie Hawtin is definitely a pioneer and innovator, no doubt about that. I'm not sure if he's the first or not.

He's the mother-fucking daddy, that much is certain, but I don't think you can really credit him with starting any musical movements. He has been quite a pioneer on the minimal side of things though.

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quote:

Originally posted by Renegade I'm not sure what you mean by "Italian techno" (please tell me you're not talking about Mauro Picotto )

I think (or at least, I hope) he is talking about the Napolitan sound represented by the likes of Marco Carola. That's a pretty well-known and agreed upon style of techno.

I don't really know much about the origins of minimal, I have been listening to it for a while, but only the somewhat more melodic stuff (e.g., releases on the Treibstoff label). I can't really get into the clicky, glitchy minimal.

It seems like minimal has a very strong base in Germany, and the explanation presented in Radagast's quote seems reasonable to me. Germany's best known minimal labels are probably Kompakt, Traum and its sublabel Trapez, although I might be missing one or two.

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check out Stewart Walker he's the man of minimal techno

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Last edited by UnBracKo on Nov-25-2004 at 10:05

quote:

Originally posted by UnBracKo check out Stewart Walker he's the man of minimal techno

Is that the guy that released an album on tresor a while back. if so then I agree - excellent album.

I think richie hawtin - closer to the edit is the best bit of minimal techno i've ever heard. 300 samples and loops mixed in 55 minutes - one word - Class!!

quote:

Originally posted by chesco Is that the guy that released an album on tresor a while back. if so then I agree - excellent album.

yes he is, pure minimal techno in his Live PA's. recommended

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quote:

Originally posted by Renegade I'm not sure what you mean by "Italian techno" (please tell me you're not talking about Mauro Picotto ) but Germany has always had a thriving minimal scene. Even now, a lot of the best minimal-tech / tech-house stuff is coming out of Germany, Berlin especially (check out Michael Mayer's Kompakt label for instance). German techno (or European techno more generally) isn't just about Chris Liebing and that hard, pounding sound.

quote:

Originally posted by basd I think (or at least, I hope) he is talking about the Napolitan sound represented by the likes of Marco Carola. That's a pretty well-known and agreed upon style of techno.

exactly. Carola, among with guys like Gaetano Parisio, Cisco Ferreira, and others are what i group as italian techno. and of course i know german techno isn't just Liebing. Liebing i don't like that much, but my fav. techno DJ is german, Frank Lorber, and that man can go from the hard shit to the bleepy minimalistic stuff in the blink of an eye. catch him live whenever you can...

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