Wooo whoo there is an extra 10 billion per year we can use for public transit, education and healthcare.

The missile defence shield doesn't work anyway

quote:

Originally posted by swilly Wooo whoo there is an extra 10 billion per year we can use for public transit, education and healthcare.

Woo Hoo, 10 billion less of US taxpayer dollars going to waste up north!


[[[smoke]]]

WOOOHOOOO

A big F U from Canada to the U.S


GO Canada Go


Bush can shove the defence system up Dick Cheney's ass

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quote:

Originally posted by swilly "It is a firm `no.' I am not sure it is an indefinite `no.' "

What I wouldn't give for a PM who said "no" to the US occasionally.

Oh well it's your loss, Canada. Don't come crying to us when you get attacked by space terrorists...

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quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Oh well it's your loss, Canada. Don't come crying to us when you get attacked by space terrorists...

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why are we always flipping the bill for wasteful expensive military systems that don't work? oh nevermind we were the ones who relected bush to a 2nd term. too bad we can't blame this on canada. on second thought why not blame it on them.

sincerely,

stupid, greedy, wasteful, arrogant, ugly american

ps

why do you hate us?

You guys are jumpin' the gun in your relishing of an Anti-Bush moment...

MARTIN HAS NOT MADE A DECISION YET...

quote:

Martin says no decision yet on ballistic missiles Last Updated Wed, 23 Feb 2005 22:07:40 EST CBC News OTTAWA - Opposition members of Parliament tried again Wednesday to show a division between the federal government and its newly appointed ambassador to Washington on the issue of ballistic missile defence. But Prime Minister Paul Martin indicated he had not yet decided whether Canada would participate in the proposed U.S. anti-ballistic missile shield. Opposition Leader Stephen Harper accused the prime minister of rejecting participation by Canada in the U.S. program and of repudiating his new ambassador, Frank McKenna. McKenna said Tuesday that Canada was already taking part in the U.S. program because it agreed last August that Norad could monitor the skies for incoming missiles. Norad is the joint North American Aerospace Defence Command run by the United States and Canada. In Wednesday's Commons question period, which was dominated by the missile defence issue, Martin and Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew kept referring back to the government's statement last August, when an amendment to the Norad agreement was signed. "The amendment authorizes Norad to make its missile warning function – a role it has performed for the last 30 years – available to the U.S. commands conducting ballistic missile defence," Martin said, quoting the communiqué. "This agreement safeguards and sustains Norad, regardless of what decision the government of Canada eventually takes on ballistic missile defence." Decision 'when it is in Canada's interest' Martin added: "The government has stated all along that it will make the decision when it is in Canada's interest to do so." Harper said Martin had indicated last August that the Norad amendment "didn't make us part of missile defence. Now they're saying it does make us part of missile defence." And deputy Conservative leader Peter MacKay quoted a Martin statement from 2003, when he signalled that Canada should get involved in missile defence. He accused Martin of changing his mind. "Are we in, are we out, or is the PM dithering still?" Pettigrew said Canada had no agreement with Washington over ballistic missile defence. "Canada values its relationship with the United States a great deal," he said. "They are our neighbours, they are our friends, they are our allies, they are great economic and trade partners. And we have negotiated and worked very closely with them on the security of our continent for a very long time. We have amended Norad last August because we believe Norad is great and should continue to perform very well for the future."

>> CBC REPORT <<

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LIEBERALS TAKE NOTE:

http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/spotlig...zie041229a.html


BMD doesn't deserve such a bumpy ride

by Lewis MacKenzie

Never get behind me in a grocery store check-out line. You are guaranteed to be a silent observer as our cashier calls for a price, hands over to her replacement, chats with a relative who is entitled to 10% off most, but not all, of her items and is on her first day solo without someone showing her the ropes. I have equal luck on long commercial airline flights. No matter how I much I want to use the transit time to prepare for whatever awaits me at the other end, I am destined to be assigned a seat beside a gregarious talker. Last week’s trip to Calgary was no exception.

Him – glancing up from his paper before I have my seat belt fastened: “Can you believe this missile defence thing? Those Yanks and that Bush guy are steamrolling us into helping them fill space with nuclear weapons.”

Me - long pause - do I take the bait or not? What the Hell: “Well , not really, the only nuclear-tipped missiles out there would be the ones coming our way and those are the ones the U.S. wants to destroy before they get here.”

Him: “But with all those nations like China, Russia, Israel, India, Pakistan and God knows how many others building nuclear missiles, this Star Wars system is going to need thousands of U.S. interceptors to handle the threat.”

Me: “Absolutely not, and don’t confuse this current system with Ronald Regan’s Star Wars. The critics of Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD) are intentionally calling it “Star Wars” to scare the public, particularly regarding the scope and cost of the system. The number of interceptors planned for the current system will be so small - somewhere around 40 to 50 – that none of the potential enemy countries you mentioned would be encouraged to increase their number of offensive missiles, as it would be easy for them to overwhelm our defensive shield with a fraction of their current inventory. This system is designed to handle the tiny number of incoming missiles that countries like North Korea or Iran might throw in our direction, intentionally or otherwise, as well as any that might be launched by some wacko terrorist organization, when and if they take control of some state’s nuclear capabilities.

Him: “That’s ridiculous! None of those folks have the capability to launch a ballistic missile against us and if they did, they wouldn’t risk being annihilated by the U.S. in retaliation.”

Me: “You are right today – but what about tomorrow? We are dealing with groups who have as their number one stated priority the elimination of their Great Satan, the U.S. and her allies. Within the past few years some of these groups have sprayed children running away from school with machine gun fire, sent suicide bombers to blow up night clubs, and slowly, sometimes taking two to three minutes, have severed innocent victims heads from their bodies, keeping them alive as long as possible in the process. Do you really think they would be deterred by the thought of U.S. retaliation? Should we wait until they have the capability before we do anything about it?

Him: “Well let the U.S. worry about that, it’s not our problem. A little earlier you said, ‘our defensive shield’, it’s not ours, it’s the Americans’!”.

Me: “It just so happens that we are already involved. We have hundreds of military cooperation agreements with the U.S. signed since the end of the Second World War. The North American Aerospace Command (NORAD) is the most important one, and we provide the deputy commander and many of the staff. Our Air Force responds to threats to North American, not just Canadian airspace. We are already involved with the system you seem to dislike, as NORAD will provide targeting data to the BMD’s interceptor missiles regarding any incoming missile target. Frequently those will be Canadian officers at NORAD’s headquarters passing on that critical information. My friend, if you aim the rifle at a deer and someone else pulls the trigger, you share the meat.”

Him: “ I don’t care what you say, the polls are showing the majority of Canadians are against us getting involved and this is a democracy”.

Me: “ Sure the polls show a close race and that result emerged from a question like, ‘ Are you in favour of joining the U.S. in its expensive and unproven ballistic missile defence program?’ Result: 50/50. Think if the question was, ‘The U.S., NATO, Japan, Britain, Australia, Russia, France, Israel, and Denmark are all cooperating with the implementation of a ballistic missile system that you won’t see, won’t pay for and won’t be based on Canadian soil, but will make you and your family safer. Are you in favour of joining?’ I would anticipate a dramatically different result.

Him: “I still say we would be safer without a bunch of nuclear interceptors out there in space”.

Me: “Actually, nuclear weapons are banned in space and they aren’t very effective out there anyway. It's space! The interceptors will not have explosive war heads. They will destroy incoming missiles with kinetic energy, like a head-on car collision. The interceptors will be launched from land or sea where they are obviously easier to service, upgrade and control.

Him: “Yeah, but haven’t all the tests failed?”

Me: “That’s why you test, to perfect the system. Do you really think that a nation which sent men to the moon in 1969 and can put a cruise missile through the bathroom window of a house 1,000 kilometres away will fail to perfect a system to track and hit an incoming warhead the size of a BMW?”

Aircraft Captain: “Ladies and Gentlemen. We have Calgary in sight. Please place your seat backs in the upright position, fasten your seatbelt and until we have safely come to a full stop at the terminal, try to stop arguing with the person seated beside you, particularly the two of you in 13 A and B. After all, we are Canadians”.


Maj-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, now retired, commanded UN troops during the Bosnian civil war of 1992.

This article is presented here with the kind permission of the author. It also appears in the 29 Dec 04 issue of The Globe and Mail.

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quote:

The number of interceptors planned for the current system will be so small - somewhere around 40 to 50 – that none of the potential enemy countries you mentioned would be encouraged to increase their number of offensive missiles, as it would be easy for them to overwhelm our defensive shield with a fraction of their current inventory

Except that Russia, before the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty, threatened to increase it's nuclear arsenal (the day after the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty Russia withdrew from START II, allowing it to increase it's arsenal)

And I have no idea what this guy is talkin about with China cos if this BMD works as intended (it doesn't) then it WOULD nullify China's very small nuclear arsenal. The fear is that even tho this BMD does not currently work, China will have to devise a strategy assuming that it does work. If China decides to devise that strategy on the basis that the BMD will have a 90% success rate, then to maintain the same level of deterrence, it must increase it's nuclear arsenal by 9 times

quote:

You are right today – but what about tomorrow? We are dealing with groups who have as their number one stated priority the elimination of their Great Satan, the U.S. and her allies. Within the past few years some of these groups have sprayed children running away from school with machine gun fire, sent suicide bombers to blow up night clubs, and slowly, sometimes taking two to three minutes, have severed innocent victims heads from their bodies, keeping them alive as long as possible in the process. Do you really think they would be deterred by the thought of U.S. retaliation? Should we wait until they have the capability before we do anything about it?

You would have thought a Major-General would be aware of the concept of mutually assured destruction? Also, I am not sure which countries (or even terrorist groups) he is refering to which have as their stated goal the destruction of America and her allies? Also, he goes onto say how nasty these regimes are cos they kill kids, cut heads of etc and tries to tell us that this means they are capable of launching nukes at America and signing their death sentense?! This guy is an idiot! (Unlike the leaders of these countries he is describing I might add...)

quote:

Actually, nuclear weapons are banned in space and they aren’t very effective out there anyway. It's space! The interceptors will not have explosive war heads. They will destroy incoming missiles with kinetic energy, like a head-on car collision. The interceptors will be launched from land or sea where they are obviously easier to service, upgrade and control.

Well I can only assume that he is refering to the ABM Treaty when he says nuclear weapons are illegal in space (altho sea-based interceptors would also be illegal, what am I on about?! The whole BMD is illegal under the ABM treaty - which is why America withdrew from it) If he is refering to Canada then the ABM Treaty is (was) only between Russia and USA



Anyway, that whole article is bullshit. It is one big list of straw men ...

Shadowolf, next time can you provide us with articles that actually educate us?

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Except that Russia, before the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty, threatened to increase it's nuclear arsenal (the day after the US withdrew from the ABM Treaty Russia withdrew from START II, allowing it to increase it's arsenal)

Wow, you're less informed than I initially thought.

http://fas.org/nuke/control/start2/...sstart2bill.htm

quote:

And I have no idea what this guy is talkin about with China cos if this BMD works as intended (it doesn't) then it WOULD nullify China's very small nuclear arsenal. The fear is that even tho this BMD does not currently work, China will have to devise a strategy assuming that it does work. If China decides to devise that strategy on the basis that the BMD will have a 90% success rate, then to maintain the same level of deterrence, it must increase it's nuclear arsenal by 9 times

BMD is not aimed that Russia, China and others, at least not initially. Those countries are still in check due to MAD.

BMD is protection against rouge nations and groups.

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