Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Pope wants life support till the end...
Pages (4): [1] 2 3 4 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
starsearcher
DigitalPunk on Flight643



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto
Read This! Pope wants life support till the end...

This is actually kind of interesting...the man of god himself want to be kept alive by machines...don't hate me for saying this but I find this kind of wrong

I guess god doesn't decide when it's time to go after all

quote:
Pope's 'Living Will' Wants Life Support to the End

Thu Mar 31, 2:06 AM ET

Top Stories - Reuters

By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor

PARIS (Reuters) - Pope John Paul, now being fed through a nasal tube because of his throat problems, effectively wrote his own "living will" last year in a speech declaring some life-extending treatments a moral duty for Roman Catholics.

The ailing Pontiff sharply narrowed Catholic guidelines for treating patients nearing death in March 2004 when he described tube-feeding as a normal treatment rather than an extraordinary measure that can be stopped if all hope of recovery fades.

This indicates he would want to be kept alive by artificial means even if he fell into a coma or a persistent vegetative state, such as the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo in the United States whose feeding tubes have been removed after 15 years.

"The Pope's statement would have to be considered the equivalent of his living will," said Father Thomas Reese S.J., editor of the Jesuit weekly America in New York. "It would be very difficult to unplug him if it came to that."

Increasingly popular in the United States, a living will is a written statement adults make to indicate whether they want doctors to use all means possible to keep them alive at life's end or to let them die if all hope of recovery seems lost.

As the Schiavo case shows, modern medicine can extend basic body functioning for years -- a worrying prospect for the world's largest church if that means its elected-for-life leader is incapacitated indefinitely.

The Catholic Church has traditionally taught that doctors and families could end artificial life-extending measures in good conscience if a dying patient's prospects seemed hopeless.

AGAINST "CULTURE OF DEATH"

John Paul, who has long railed against a "culture of death" he saw in abortion and artificial birth control, surprised moral theologians in a speech in March 2004 by insisting Catholics can no longer make such decisions even in extreme cases.

"The intrinsic value and the personal dignity of every human being does not change no matter what the concrete situation of his life," he told doctors and ethics experts attending a Rome conference about patients in a vegetative state.

"The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act," he said. Denying them this treatment would amount to "euthanasia by omission."

"Considerations about the 'quality of life,' often actually dictated by psychological, social and economic pressures, cannot take precedence over general principles," he said.

John Grabowski, associate professor of ethics at Catholic University of America in Washington, said the Pope had made his views clear but "left many theologians scratching their heads."

The problem was that he expressed this in a speech, not in a doctrinal document that made it official Church policy.

"The Pope can say any number of things but he has to tell the bishops' conferences when they have to change something," added Father James Keenan S.J., ethics professor at Boston College. "He hasn't done this."

As a result, he said, the U.S. bishops' conference and the Catholic Health Association have not renounced the more flexible earlier position even though many Catholic leaders support Schiavo's parents' demand to continue feeding her.

"We've spent centuries letting people figure out how they want to go to meet God, and now we have these fairly intrusive claims on a patient," Keenan said in his critical assessment of how the Pope was changing Church teaching on the end of life.

"It doesn't seem good for the Church to rethink how to die when the Pope himself is ailing," he said. "The dying of a Pope should not set our agenda."


___________________
Photo Album: *Click*

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:24  Israel
Click Here to See the Profile for starsearcher Click here to Send starsearcher a Private Message Visit starsearcher's homepage! Add starsearcher to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Vivid Boy
TA's GodFather



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: T.O

i always liked the pope. alwyas wanted my soccer cleats blessed by him

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:25 
Click Here to See the Profile for Vivid Boy Click here to Send Vivid Boy a Private Message Add Vivid Boy to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
RobbyG.
DJ Kat SKRATCH



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto

Thats all fine & dandy but I would hope that he would pass on the responsibility of "Pope" to someone else.


___________________
"Kiss them for me...for I may be delayed."

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:26  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for RobbyG. Click here to Send RobbyG. a Private Message Add RobbyG. to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
drgoodvibe
skoun'drl



Registered: Mar 2003
Location: In the flash

to be frank that's potentially bad for the Catholic church. Having a living but absentee pope leaves administration of the church to the Cardinals who may have their own agendas.


___________________
http://www.travelninja.com
------------------------------------

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:27  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for drgoodvibe Click here to Send drgoodvibe a Private Message Visit drgoodvibe's homepage! Add drgoodvibe to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Vivid Boy
TA's GodFather



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: T.O

quote:
Originally posted by RobbyG.

Thats all fine & dandy but I would hope that he would pass on the responsibility of "Pope" to someone else.



how does that work anyways? does the pope appoint the next pope? is their a vote? cause if there is.........i want in

Last edited by Vivid Boy on Mar-31-2005 at 17:11

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:28 
Click Here to See the Profile for Vivid Boy Click here to Send Vivid Boy a Private Message Add Vivid Boy to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
starsearcher
DigitalPunk on Flight643



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by RobbyG.
Thats all fine & dandy but I would hope that he would pass on the responsibility of "Pope" to someone else.


I have to agree with you there...I don't really understand why he's still holding it, he's clearly on his last leg, I think it would be great to pass it on to a successor...or is that not how it works?!


___________________
Photo Album: *Click*

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:28  Israel
Click Here to See the Profile for starsearcher Click here to Send starsearcher a Private Message Visit starsearcher's homepage! Add starsearcher to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Moral Hazard
Oppressing the 99%



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: with the 1%
Re: Pope wants life support till the end...

quote:
Originally posted by starsearcher
This is actually kind of interesting...the man of god himself want to be kept alive by machines...don't hate me for saying this but I find this kind of wrong

I guess god doesn't decide when it's time to go after all


It's a question of the Roman Catholic morality. It is immoral to them for one to either prevent life from starting, terminate life, or allow life to end prematurely. This last one has been extended to include allowing a natural end to life. I suppose the argument is that God allowed the machines to exist therefore it must be God's will that we employ them. That being said I don't know why this same logic doesn't get extended to condoms and abortions.... if God allows them to exist he must want us to use them.

What will really suck is if the pope does need to be on life support. Really, what kind of image is that for the church.... their vision of God's representitive on earth is a febal old man who is so weak that he must be kept alive by machines. That says something about the church itself don't you think.


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by RickyM
you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:29  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Moral Hazard Click here to Send Moral Hazard a Private Message Add Moral Hazard to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
starsearcher
DigitalPunk on Flight643



Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto

LOL...did someone hack into TA?!?!? What's with all the BS on the posts?!


___________________
Photo Album: *Click*

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:30  Israel
Click Here to See the Profile for starsearcher Click here to Send starsearcher a Private Message Visit starsearcher's homepage! Add starsearcher to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
DarkAngel
.



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: .

quote:
Originally posted by starsearcher
LOL...did someone hack into TA?!?!? What's with all the BS on the posts?!




Threads in COR look the same way, too...


As far as topic goes, well...no comment.

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:33 
Click Here to See the Profile for DarkAngel Click here to Send DarkAngel a Private Message Visit DarkAngel's homepage! Add DarkAngel to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Moral Hazard
Oppressing the 99%



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: with the 1%

quote:
Originally posted by drgoodvibe
to be frank that's potentially bad for the Catholic church. Having a living but absentee pope leaves administration of the church to the Cardinals who may have their own agendas.


Essentially this has already happened. JPII delegated all of the administrative duties and control of the vatican owned corporations off to two of his most trusted cardinals several years ago. The Pope's Litergical Counsel is responsible for all the day to day running of the church part of the vatican (deciding which readings will be read and what hymns sung). All the pope really does now is act as a figure head and rule on spiritual questions that the college of cardinals cannot decide upon themselves.

FYI, the pope is a political figure even more so then a spiritual figure.... he has his own agenda too. You can bet he's holding on for earthly reasons as much as spiritual reasons.


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by RickyM
you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:34  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Moral Hazard Click here to Send Moral Hazard a Private Message Add Moral Hazard to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Tordan
Anti BS Alliance



Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by starsearcher
LOL...did someone hack into TA?!?!? What's with all the BS on the posts?!


It appears that Vivid Boy has discovered the wonderful world of CSS.


___________________
SHUT UP AND DANCE !!

Old Post Mar-31-2005 16:44  Sri Lanka
Click Here to See the Profile for Tordan Click here to Send Tordan a Private Message Add Tordan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
DarkAngel
.



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: .

quote:
Originally posted by Tordan
It appears that Vivid Boy has discovered the wonderful world of CSS.




Nah, according to Neo it was Boomer, Ian^ and a couple of others.

Old Post Mar-31-2005 17:09 
Click Here to See the Profile for DarkAngel Click here to Send DarkAngel a Private Message Visit DarkAngel's homepage! Add DarkAngel to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Pope wants life support till the end...
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (4): [1] 2 3 4 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackPsy ID! [2004] [1]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackGreen Court feat. Lina Rafn - "Silent Heart" (Voodoo & Serano Mix ) [2005]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 16:32.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!