Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > This is ONE of the reasons why we can't have 19,000+ Parties in Toronto EVER AGAIN!
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
E2EK1EL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario
This is ONE of the reasons why we can't have 19,000+ Parties in Toronto EVER AGAIN!

Do cops extort paid jobs from rave promoters?
Police threaten to close events unless officers are hired




Toronto police are ignoring city council and demanding that rave promoters hire dozens of extra officers to work the lucrative all-night circuit, dance community sources say.

The choice is simple -- pay up or shut it down. Promoters of an event last Saturday were forced to hire 70 officers at a minimum $528 a pop, for a total of about $40,000. Two weeks ago, another event was cancelled when promoters refused to meet police demands to triple the number of paid-duty jobs.

Kim Stanford, chair of the Safe Dance Committee, says police forced Goin' Deep Productions to hire more than 50 extra officers -- for at least $44 an hour -- to work last Saturday's event at the city-owned Better Living Centre.

"They're essentially pricing out legal raves," says Stanford, who was part of a task force of city officials and dance promoters that drafted a list of guidelines for Toronto raves last year. The protocol, which was passed unanimously by city council, dictate that a rave should be in a building that's properly zoned for such an event. There are also guidelines for capacity, fire exits, ventilation and water supply, as well as requirements for the number of ambulance workers and police officers on hand.

According to the city protocol, one paid-duty officer (PDO) is required for every 500 ravers.

Goin' Deep had planned a party for about 8,000, which would have meant hiring 16 to 20 officers for the night. But Stanford says police demanded that promoters bring the total to 70.

"There really isn't violence at raves," she says. "There isn't a great need for paid-duty officers. We're augmenting their budgets for PDOs in uniform that are in the parking lot drinking coffee."

Stanford says promoters are also being required to pay for the presence of undercover officers. "That is a dangerous precedent," she says. "When that type of thing becomes required for people to congregate -- whoa."

Stanford's comments follow two recent monster raves downtown that resulted in scores of drug-related charges.

In March, 19 people were arrested at the Better Living Centre during what was described as Toronto's biggest-ever rave raid. Reports of additional arrests at Goin' Deep's event began filtering out hours after the 8pm start time at the same venue last Saturday, eventually totalling 57 drug-related charges against 24 people.

Attempts to reach Goin' Deep honchos were unsuccessful.

Police spokesperson Constable Devin Kealey says police don't release the number of paid-duty officers working any given party. But he agrees that an estimate of 70 would be accurate for Saturday's rave.

"It was significant," he says. "I can tell you that. There was definitely high police visibility.... That would be a fair number. It would be in that neighbourhood."

Kealey denies that police ignored the city's guidelines in requiring that promoters hire 70 officers for the night.

"My understanding is that they were using the protocol. The problem was the numbers given were all guesstimates of what the total number would be."

Sources agree that the police have more or less followed the protocols -- until recently.

City councillor and Police Services Board member Olivia Chow wants to know why cops are suddenly throwing them out.

"The protocols, after a lot of work from all city departments, were recommended and adopted by the city," she says.

Chow notes that city police helped set the protocols. "These are the folks that said using this number would be appropriate," says Chow. "Those guidelines should be followed. If they're not, then why do we bother having a protocol? We went through a whole process with 14 Division and other folks from the police. They said this is what's most appropriate. If they want to change it, let's just say it up front and we'll work on it. But don't just ignore it."

Stanford says police forced the cancellation of an April 15 rave at the Docks by ordering the promoter, Hullabaloo, to triple the number of paid-duty officers required by the protocol.

Since Hullabaloo had been expecting 2,600 people, only five or six paid-duty officers were needed. According to various sources, police demanded that as many as 15 be put on the payroll.

"The promoter, the head of the security company and the owner of the docks went to police, as per city protocol, to request paid-duty officers," Stanford says. The three were brought into a room with 16 police officers and told that if PDOs or undercover officers found any evidence of illegal activity -- like a single joint -- they would shut the party down, arrest the Docks' security chief and take away the club's liquor licence.

Hullabaloo pulled the plug.

For the moment, promoters aren't talking, and neither are Docks' crewmen. Stanford says that has everything to do with recent crackdowns on just about anything open after last call.

"They're afraid of the police," she says. "They fear repercussions. Promoters are feeling harassed, they're feeling like they can't make comments to the press, because they're being targeted already."

A Hullabaloo source who requested anonymity said, "I can confirm that they were asking for three times as many police as we had for our event at the Docks two months earlier. Same promoters, same venue, nothing bad happened at the Docks, yet they were asking for three times as many cops. They wanted enough police to shut the party down should they need to do so.

"They told me that they don't recognize the protocols."

NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT
The Police Services Board has asked Chief Julian Fantino to come up with a policy on paid-duty work. In the meantime, it seems to be open season.

At 51 Division, Superintendent Don Mantle has expressed concern about the amount of paid-duty time being put in at raves. His statement came during the 51 Division community forum with Fantino on April 18. "Our foot-patrol officers on several occasions were asked to work in other divisions," said Mantle. "This was because of several raves and special events being carried out in the downtown core. This became a concern because the community wants foot-patrol officers from 51 Division to address 51 Division concerns."

Officers on paid duty make a standard hourly wage of $44, a figure that rises with rank. If more than three cops are hired, a commander must also be put on the payroll at $48 an hour and up. When 10 paid-duty officers are hired, a second commander has to be signed on, and so on.

Typical paid-duty gigs include rock concerts, baseball games, society weddings and bingos. Corporate Communications Staff Sergeant Fred Ellarby says there is no formula for calculating the number of paid-duty officers required for these events.

"It would depend on the group," he says. "If Lawrence Welk is coming, you'll need one guy at the door. When Ozzy Osbourne was in during his bat-biting stage, it was a lot. It really is going to depend on what your target audience is, what the activity is and a million different variables."

Ellarby says there are no figures on the number of person hours Toronto cops put in each year. Same for the average cop's paid-duty take.

"There is no average officer. I think I've done two or three paid duties in my career, as opposed to some guys who do them every time they're off. The last time I was on shift, there was one guy on my platoon that did most of the paid duties. Other people never did them, so there really isn't an average."

Ellarby says some officers "want to do it as a full-time job and will spend as much of their off-duty time as they can."

http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_04.27.00/news/cops.html

Last edited by E2EK1EL on Jul-08-2005 at 10:29

Old Post Jul-08-2005 09:36  China
Click Here to See the Profile for E2EK1EL Click here to Send E2EK1EL a Private Message Add E2EK1EL to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
E2EK1EL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario

The old protocal was ... for every 500 ppl = 1 cop, the new one is 25ppl = 1 cop



You do the math! Pretty fucking sad we lost it all ...

Old Post Jul-08-2005 09:48  China
Click Here to See the Profile for E2EK1EL Click here to Send E2EK1EL a Private Message Add E2EK1EL to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Endlesswave
Resident GreekCypriot.



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Thornhill (Ontario)

FUCKING cops. I WILL bitch to my cousin who is attending cop college in August. Apparently he has a huge recommendation from the chief event. We'll see.
So far, it is fucking BS.


___________________
Und ich tanz einfach weiter...

Old Post Jul-08-2005 09:55  Cyprus
Click Here to See the Profile for Endlesswave Click here to Send Endlesswave a Private Message Add Endlesswave to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Jem_hadar
I remember...



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Pandora (South of Nowhere)

THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!


JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. I CANT BELIEVE THE SHIT IM HEARING TODAY!!


___________________
TECHNO IS THE BEST NOISE ON EARTH.
Save Techno - Stop Minimal / Tech-House

Old Post Jul-08-2005 10:58  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for Jem_hadar Click here to Send Jem_hadar a Private Message Visit Jem_hadar's homepage! Add Jem_hadar to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
amb_
Crisis in Clubland



Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Waterloo

quote:
Originally posted by Jem_hadar
THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!


JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. I CANT BELIEVE THE SHIT IM HEARING TODAY!!


Old news


___________________
"That which is common to the greatest number has the least care bestowed upon it." -- Aristotle

Old Post Jul-08-2005 11:08  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for amb_ Click here to Send amb_ a Private Message Add amb_ to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
zokissima
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto

Same old shit. Draw a line, and see how far back you can stretch it. Seems everyone is just concerned with screwing the next guy over. Sad to see that our 'finest' aren't exempt from this.

Old Post Jul-08-2005 11:27  Yugoslavia
Click Here to See the Profile for zokissima Click here to Send zokissima a Private Message Add zokissima to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
E2EK1EL
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario

From now on ... no one on TOTA should bitch about, how come Toronto can't throw massive events like the ones they have in Europe???

Myself and many old skoolers, have been telling you noobs for months and months about what happen in 1999 with Rave Protocal, I finaly found a nice artical to show you guys.

PODs are one of the major reasons ... the others are the convention centres with their own protocals.

Convention Centre Protocals :
Venue Rental 50,000 - 100,000 depending on size
PPL capped to 6000ppl
Venue must be cleaned and cleared by 6am, there for you event must end at 3am. Cleaning and stage crew comes in to clean and clear everything out.
Paid Duty Officers must be on site with whatever the recent city protocal. (25 ppl = 1 cop x 44 - 48+ hr)

Many promoters have been trying so hard to find a loop hole or some how by pass this unfair protocal for years, but it's impossible in Toronto. It's the carved in stone and never can be changed.

Last edited by E2EK1EL on Jul-08-2005 at 11:36

Old Post Jul-08-2005 11:28  China
Click Here to See the Profile for E2EK1EL Click here to Send E2EK1EL a Private Message Add E2EK1EL to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Tordan
Anti BS Alliance



Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada

Yeah, this is old news. Haven't you noticed in the past couple of years the police presence at events and even foot patrol has nearly trippled? Most of the time they're standing around doing shit or harassing people.

quote:
"It would depend on the group," he says. "If Lawrence Welk is coming, you'll need one guy at the door. When Ozzy Osbourne was in during his bat-biting stage, it was a lot. It really is going to depend on what your target audience is, what the activity is and a million different variables."


LOL. Ravers make a good target because they're easy to bust. God forbid they do some real police work like seize all the guns coming from the US.


___________________
SHUT UP AND DANCE !!

Old Post Jul-08-2005 11:32  Sri Lanka
Click Here to See the Profile for Tordan Click here to Send Tordan a Private Message Add Tordan to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
b4k-oz
I am the Omnipresent TA



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: TO, ON & Omnipresent
Angry

^^E2EK1EL, Amb_ and Tordan are right....this is old newz now.

IMHO This is one Facked up city!!!

The beauracracy is getting worse and worse. I'm so tired of it and it is this, that makes me ashamed of our system. I'm sure life in Amsterdam is way better than this crap, even if the homes are cramped and tiny and the work is tight....it can't be worse than the direction Toronto has been heading for over the past few years (Tiny little condo's at mega prices. Being taxed for everything except the air we breathe....which is probably their next target)

It saddens me to say that I lost the faith and trust in our Police force and govt officials since 2000, when action officially started against Raves. It's interesting how they'll allow non-violent raves, so long as they can extort $$$ from it.

Why is it that I don't see them extorting $$$ from the hip hop club owners...Seems to me, they are always guaranteed to have some form of armed violence whereas Raves never do.











P.S. TO THOSE IN POLITICAL ARGUMENT MODE.....GET LOST THIS IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS....IT'S ABOUT CANADIAN CORRUPTION & GREED BY OUR COPS WHO FEEL THEY CAN BEND THE LAW....AND THEIR SUPERIORS, WHO FEEL THEY ARE ABOVE THE LAW!!!


___________________
Peace, Unity, Luv and Havin Fun!!

"People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of their character."- Ralph Waldo Emerson, US essayist & poet (1803 - 1882)

Last edited by b4k-oz on Jul-08-2005 at 14:09

Old Post Jul-08-2005 11:43  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for b4k-oz Click here to Send b4k-oz a Private Message Add b4k-oz to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Sly_Guy
Scene Missing



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: On one of Peterman's adventures

old news....We used to have such a healthy scene, why is it that politicians and the public fear what they don't understand, and take such an adversarial stance towards other people's good time. What happened to choice and individuality?

SAVE THE RAVERS FROM THEMSELVES!!!


___________________
Not Everyone Understands House Music, It's a Spiritual Thing, a Body Thing, a Soul Thing

Old Post Jul-08-2005 13:58  Croatia
Click Here to See the Profile for Sly_Guy Click here to Send Sly_Guy a Private Message Add Sly_Guy to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
rabbitjoker
aural sadist



Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA

This still goes on today.

Look at those 6 pay-duty coppers that sit outside Guv all night in the van (eating hotdogs, shottin' the shit).


___________________
- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

Old Post Jul-08-2005 14:11  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for rabbitjoker Click here to Send rabbitjoker a Private Message Visit rabbitjoker's homepage! Add rabbitjoker to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
shanny
Ferocious One



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: in the jungle the mighty jungle

Its really too bad that it has to be this way.

After going up to montreal for swirl back in may I really saw how great things could go if things like this didn't get in the way.

Police were there actually helping work the door and then once you got inside there were no problems.

Seems like a better system to have police helping and visible rather than cracking down on the promoters and individual drug users.


___________________

Check out more of my ramblings at:
http://thedailyuniverse.blogspot.com/


Where Are The Tunes?
Good things happen to good people

Old Post Jul-08-2005 14:42  Canada
Click Here to See the Profile for shanny Click here to Send shanny a Private Message Visit shanny's homepage! Add shanny to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > This is ONE of the reasons why we can't have 19,000+ Parties in Toronto EVER AGAIN!
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playback[1969] []

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playback[1969]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:02.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!