Hmmm...maybe I'm not making myself clear (I guess that's obvious huh?)
So rather than post in several different threads with the same explanation, I'll just post it here.

Basically (my options are):

Immigration:
Not bad. Immigration is a basic necessity for all nations although immigration practices need to be seriously looked at and revised.
If an immigrant (and I don't care WHERE FROM) is known to have existing or previous ties to a listed terrorist group, then how do they get in??
Canada (you'll notice this is the country in which I reside) is a prime example.
Of course, we're working on that

Multiculturalism:
This pretty much sums what I think about it:

quote:

Multiculturalism is a growing force in America’s universities and public life. In brief, multiculturalism is the view that all cultures, from that of a spirits-worshiping tribe to that of an advanced industrial civilization, are equal in value. Since cultures are obviously not equal in value—not if man’s life is your standard of value—this egalitarian doctrine can have only one purpose: to raze the mountaintops. Multiculturalism seeks to obliterate the value of a free, industrialized civilization (which today exists in the West and elsewhere), by declaring that such a civilization is no better than primitive tribalism. More deeply, it seeks to incapacitate a mind’s ability to distinguish good from evil, to distinguish that which is life promoting from that which is life negating. We are opposed to this destructive doctrine. We hold that moral judgment is essential to life. The ideas and values that animate a particular culture can and should be judged objectively. A culture that values freedom, progress, reason and science, for instance, is good; one that values oppression, stagnation, mysticism, and ignorance is not.

>>Source<<

Islam
I think I've pretty much explained myself on this but for the record extreme Islamist is the issue, not ISLAM itself.
If I was to follow the logic of this type of arguement, apparently I don't like Catholics either because a few priets diddling with kids...

What I don't understand is that if Islam is such a peace-loving religion then I ask the extremists; where is the love?? Shouldn't I be afraid of a big hug instead of looking for bombs strapped to the inside of your jacket?
Not that I have to worry about that here on this side of pond mind you, but it certainly is coming close to home...


So I hope that explains some things for you all in where my mindset is.
I expect debate, that's why I post here. For the most part, you guys know your politics and I enjoying reading it all since a truely informed person knows both side of a question/arguement.
But don't get all offensive if a suggestion is made questioning an arguement or event. Too many times debates get into mud-slinging before any attempt at empathy.

Any questions now?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Islam What I don't understand is that if Islam is such a peace-loving religion then I ask the extremists; where is the love??

Again, extremism exist in every damn religion in this world,Islam is a peaceful religion,but you cant generalize the whole religion based on a few fuckin extremists.

quote:

Shouldn't I be afraid of a big hug instead of looking for bombs strapped to the inside of your jacket?

yes be scared verrrrrrrrrrrry scared we all have bombs around us and ready to blow up when you hug us. stop thinking like those rednecks ffs.

quote:

Not that I have to worry about that here on this side of pond mind you, but it certainly is coming close to home...

Then move down south and join your lovely Americans,it is alot safer and they have a great leader who fights terrorism very well and cares about people.

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Again, extremism exist in every damn religion in this world,Islam is a peaceful religion,but you cant generalize the whole religion based on a few fuckin extremists.

But this is the flack YOU'RE giving me after I repeatedly stated that I don't have the problem with the religion.
So what part of, "I - DON'T - HAVE - A - PROBLEM - WITH- ISLAM" don't you understand???

quote:

yes be scared verrrrrrrrrrrry scared we all have bombs around us and ready to blow up when you hug us. stop thinking like those rednecks ffs. Then move down south and join your lovely Americans,it is alot safer and they have a great leader who fights terrorism very well and cares about people.

Again, same problem as above.
Apparently you're happier pounding on the keyboard?
Again, what part of, "I - DON'T - HAVE - A - PROBLEM - WITH- ISLAM" don't you understand???
There's a lot of insinuation and assumption in your posts btw...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Again, extremism exist in every damn religion in this world,Islam is a peaceful religion,but you cant generalize the whole religion based on a few fuckin extremists.

it's those "few fuckin extremists" that have effectively silenced and marginalized those very "peaceful people" that represent 98% of the population globally. there is something very wrong with that. no one should accept that by whatever means used to accomplish it, including martyrdom.

quote:

yes be scared verrrrrrrrrrrry scared we all have bombs around us and ready to blow up when you hug us. stop thinking like those rednecks ffs.

ffs, recognize dramatic licence when you read it.

quote:

Then move down south and join your lovely Americans,it is alot safer and they have a great leader who fights terrorism very well and cares about people.

thats true, but Canada is much less morally corruptable with wonderful healthcare

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I think I've pretty much explained myself on this but for the record extreme Islamist is the issue, not ISLAM itself.

But you then say...

quote:

What I don't understand is that if Islam is such a peace-loving religion then I ask the extremists; where is the love?? Shouldn't I be afraid of a big hug instead of looking for bombs strapped to the inside of your jacket?

It is comments like this that gives everyone the impression you DO have a problem the religion itself. Otherwise you wouldn't make statements like "if Islam is such a peace-loving religion" trying to make out that Islam isn't a peace-loving religion. If Christianity were such a "peace-loving" religion why did they go over to the Middle East and slaughter Muslims and Jews? If Judaism were such a "peace-loving" religion then why have Jewish terrorists killed Arabs?

These extremists do not represent their religions by definition otherwise why would they be called extremists?

That is the point you need to drill home and that is why people have been getting at you...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley But you then say...

I don't see the confusion really; I always specify, "extremists".

The fact that they're extremists within the religion of Islam is more what people don't like reading; or so I'm gathering.
However, I'm not being bigoted by pointing out a fact, so what's the real problem?

You are right, there is a very fine, sensitive line between the two. One that I try to stay away from, but the Internet being what it is, is easy to misconstrue and warp.
How do you think it should be phrased then so as to not set off red flags and get gag-reflex herfing on the keyboard before they really read the message?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Just dont say things like "if Islam were such a peace-loving religion" cos that looks like you are saying it isn't a peace-loving religion!

quote:

Multiculturalism is a growing force in America’s universities and public life. In brief, multiculturalism is the view that all cultures, from that of a spirits-worshiping tribe to that of an advanced industrial civilization, are equal in value. Since cultures are obviously not equal in value—not if man’s life is your standard of value—this egalitarian doctrine can have only one purpose: to raze the mountaintops. Multiculturalism seeks to obliterate the value of a free, industrialized civilization (which today exists in the West and elsewhere), by declaring that such a civilization is no better than primitive tribalism. More deeply, it seeks to incapacitate a mind’s ability to distinguish good from evil, to distinguish that which is life promoting from that which is life negating. We are opposed to this destructive doctrine. We hold that moral judgment is essential to life. The ideas and values that animate a particular culture can and should be judged objectively. A culture that values freedom, progress, reason and science, for instance, is good; one that values oppression, stagnation, mysticism, and ignorance is not.

I think you should get your opinions from elsewhere. Honestly man you find the worst articles..... Surely you can find a better one than that shit heap above.
BTW evil is a man made concept, by try to tell a radical that, including the one who wrote that article.

cultures are not equal value? who says so? I can feel chosen one syndrome coming on. Im sure there are good arguments against multicultralism, but this is not one.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by ProDiGaL I think you should get your opinions from elsewhere. Honestly man you find the worst articles..... Surely you can find a better one than that shit heap above. BTW evil is a man made concept, by try to tell a radical that, including the one who wrote that article. cultures are not equal value? who says so? I can feel chosen one syndrome coming on. Im sure there are good arguments against multicultralism, but this is not one.

You seem to have some ideas, so lets hear some...

So other than your 'opinion' regarding the article, I didn't post it to please everyone.
If you know of a better article then I'm all ears (eyes?); post away cause I'd like to see it. (honestly).

BTW you've obviously of the mindset of God is a the creation of man then if you believe evil is a man made concept.
I can accept that, everyone has their own beliefs, but don't make it sound like everyone else does.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

I think it has pro's and cons. You and I both live in multicultural societies so we can see both sides. Could you imagine is we had no mix whatsoever? We would be just as ignorant about other cultures and people as the terrorists we hate so much. I think we have a lot to learn from each other, and this can be done in multicultural society. Ever notice why racism is allways higher in little hick towns? Its because they rarely see someone different, its easier to hate an unfaced group. Like I said, I think we have a lot to share, and peace and undestanding comes with communication.

The cons, people fear they will lose national identity, both the immigrants and the locals. And I can understand that people might want to hangon to traditions but when an immigrant still doenst speak the local godamn language after 10 freakin years thats just disgraceful. I think if you are going to immigrate to a country, you have to be willing to mix right in, not just go over there to make money and reap the benefits (which sadly is the case a lot of the time).

___________________

The issue of extemism in Islam is a single slice of a larger pie as you point out, that pie is Multiculturalism.

Examining a related issue, take the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding". The premise of that movie, is that apparently in Greek culture in North America you are not allowed to marry outside your culture.

Let's be honest, that's retarded.

Its a tiny example of problems which are found in cultures all around the world.

**

At the end of the day ALL Culture[/B} has two aspects.

Its a [b]skeleton that supports and enhances life (i.e. Halloween is a lot of fun for kids, and Thanksgiving is a great opportunity for families to get together)

and

the other side of the coin is that culture is a cage that limits and diminishes life (i.e. Honour Killings, Social Ostracization of those who are different )

**

The dream then, is to arrive at a place where culture is all Skeleton, and no cage.

___________________
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your pearl casting hero

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo thats true, but Canada is much less morally corruptable with wonderful healthcare

Haha Canada is gay.