you know it is intresting to see the right wing always bitching about how Saddam tortured his own people but yet we see the same with the American soldiers in overseas doing the same or worse in other countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.I know I know you might say hey they are terrorists so who gives a fuck but my question here is arent you creating more terrorists by doing this?arent you getting more people in those countries angry wanting fuckin kill you?

you told the whole world that you went to Iraq to free those people form torture and dictatorship but yet you use the same methods in their country to abuse the the prisnores in the prisons which I might add is against the geneva Conventions.

and as you all heard by now Bush said he will veto against the anti torture law
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/co...255E663,00.html

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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer I know I know you might say hey they are terrorists so who gives a fuck but my question here is arent you creating more terrorists by doing this?arent you getting more people in those countries angry wanting fuckin kill you?

So what about their own Iraqi lead forces killing terrorists?
Does that anger them too?

I'm not defending anyone here; there certainly has been lots of questions regarding Iraq, but sooner or later, the States will leave and then what will we say?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r So what about their own Iraqi lead forces killing terrorists? Does that anger them too? I'm not defending anyone here; there certainly has been lots of questions regarding Iraq, but sooner or later, the States will leave and then what will we say?

Are the Iraqi lead forces Americans or other "Infidels" occupying Muslim land?

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer you know it is intresting to see the right wing always bitching about how Saddam tortured his own people but yet we see the same with the American soldiers in overseas doing the same or worse in other countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.I know I know you might say hey they are terrorists so who gives a fuck but my question here is arent you creating more terrorists by doing this?arent you getting more people in those countries angry wanting fuckin kill you? you told the whole world that you went to Iraq to free those people form torture and dictatorship but yet you use the same methods in their country to abuse the the prisnores in the prisons which I might add is against the geneva Conventions. and as you all heard by now Bush said he will veto against the anti torture law http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/co...255E663,00.html

Who do you think taught Saddam torture techniques in the first place? It's most likely that we did, when he was still an asset of the CIA during the Cold War.

I guess you guys have never heard of the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation, formerly known as the "School of the Americas"

http://www.newhumanist.com/soa.html

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/09/1641669.php

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...of_the_Americas

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...storyId=1010748

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Are the Iraqi lead forces Americans or other "Infidels" occupying Muslim land?

Of course not.
I'm just thinking ahead when all "Infidels" have left...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Of course not. I'm just thinking ahead when all "Infidels" have left...

Then they'll probably just have a civil war.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Then they'll probably just have a civil war.

But the Americans are already there now stopping this very thing...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r But the Americans are already there now stopping this very thing...

Dude, as kind as I try to be to people, I just can't help but get frustrated by you and your backtracking, wishy-washy, crapola arguments. Either go out and learn some reading comprehension or stop posting on this board altogether. This is getting to be beyond ridiculous!

Go back two posts and look at what you just said to see what I'm responding to...

Here, I'll do it for you:

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I'm just thinking ahead when all "Infidels" have left...

___________________

quote:

"Learn, child, to catch a hint through whatever agency it may be given. 'Sermons may be preached through stones." - Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Letters from the Masters of Wisdom, first series, p. 74, letter 31

Fir3start3r what willl it take for you to admit that this admnistration has made some major fuckups?

I mean why are you 100% always behind Bush even though I know that you know he is wrong in alot of issues.Why are you defending him with passion?tell me one positive thing he has done besides attacking Afghanistan to kill the Talibans which I might add were put to power by the CIA.(you probably gonna deny that too right?)

I mean I see in this board over and over people try to educate you and open your eyes to see whats going on with this Douchebag of a president and you still defend him regardless.It makes me feel sick to my stomach seeing people like you defedning this man 100% on everything he does.

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Dude, as kind as I try to be to people, I just can't help but get frustrated by you and your backtracking, wishy-washy, crapola arguments. Either go out and learn some reading comprehension or stop posting on this board altogether. This is getting to be beyond ridiculous! Go back two posts and look at what you just said to see what I'm responding to... Here, I'll do it for you:

Wow...
I ask a few actual questions that actually deserve some actual thought and everyone does a knee-jerk stop at Bush.
Pardon me if I don't think, "He's all that" and that the world doesn't revolve around the fuckin' guy.
Look, forget the fact that it looks like I'm defending the guy; I've debunked that already, but apparently some people need some, how you say, "reading comprehension".

This is a place of debate, act like it.
If you can't handle questions here, you my friend are going to have a lot of problems in real life.
This isn't a closed-door, elite anti-Bush Mason's club.
You'll just have to live with the fact that some people don't necessarily believe everything they see on the Internet.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Fir3start3r what willl it take for you to admit that this admnistration has made some major fuckups? I mean why are you 100% always behind Bush even though I know that you know he is wrong in alot of issues.Why are you defending him with passion?tell me one positive thing he has done besides attacking Afghanistan to kill the Talibans which I might add were put to power by the CIA.(you probably gonna deny that too right?) I mean I see in this board over and over people try to educate you and open your eyes to see whats going on with this Douchebag of a president and you still defend him regardless.It makes me feel sick to my stomach seeing people like you defedning this man 100% on everything he does.

And you need to learn to read too.
I'll even post a link for you since it's quite evident your mind is already made up without any facts regarding me.
>>My Bush Rant<<
Read it, you might actually be surprised.

I suggest you either both better get used to the idea that I'm going to ask questions or use your IGNORE feature.
It least I won't have to explain myself to the thought police here everytime I post...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Wow... I ask a few actual questions that actually deserve some actual thought and everyone does a knee-jerk stop at Bush. Pardon me if I don't think, "He's all that" and that the world doesn't revolve around the fuckin' guy. Look, forget the fact that it looks like I'm defending the guy; I've debunked that already, but apparently some people need some, how you say, "reading comprehension".

Hey moron, ONCE AGAIN, my post had absolutely nothing at all to do with Bush. So don't group me with anyone else because my post was directed only at you and had nothing whatsoever to do with anything BUT the post I was responding to.

Is that really so difficult to understand?

And it really does pain me to be such a jerk like this, but I don't see any other way of getting through that amazingly dense skull of yours.

___________________

quote:

"Learn, child, to catch a hint through whatever agency it may be given. 'Sermons may be preached through stones." - Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Letters from the Masters of Wisdom, first series, p. 74, letter 31

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Are the Iraqi lead forces Americans or other "Infidels" occupying Muslim land?

Are you refering to this? I answered that.

You answered with they'll, "Probably have a civil war" like that wasn't obvious, and I say mention the Americans are there to prevent that.
They're there now trying to stop civil war and get a country back on their feet. There's nothing wishy-washy about that statement at all.
They knew that before they went in, hell, we all knew that during the first Gulf War in '91 because the question of a "power vaccuum" was brought up even then.
Even the Left side of blogsphere agrees why the Americans are there now.

quote:

ERIK GUSTAFSON: Well, that's one thing I want to make very clear. It's not about being for or against withdrawal. The Education for Peace in Iraq Center, of course, wants to see US forces withdraw and to see a process that moves in that direction. However, the question is whether or not US forces can leave tomorrow. And the answer is, no. Iraq's security forces are insufficient to provide the security that the Iraqi people need. We would leave a tremendous vacuum behind. And all of the Iraqis that I talked to, while there is -- I mean, they are unanimous in wanting to see Americans leave and wanting to see the Bush Administration make a declaration that the US has no claim on the resources or territory of Iraq, which the administration still refuses to do. But in terms of pulling out tomorrow, most Iraqis fear the chaos, fear what would happen next. They know that many of their families, their neighborhoods are not secure. There aren’t police to be able to maintain the law and order that's required. And there aren't security forces to guard against a tremendous power vacuum. The question would be, who would step into the power vacuum? We have terrorism going on in Iraq. We have militias, Islamist fundamentalist militias. Is that what we're going to pass Iraq's future on to? I don't think so. I think that there has to be a process.

http://www.democracynow.org/article...5/04/20/1427259

The arguement isn't so "backtracking, wishy-washy, [and] crapola" now is it??

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Hey moron, ONCE AGAIN, my post had absolutely nothing at all to do with Bush. So don't group me with anyone else because my post was directed only at you and had nothing whatsoever to do with anything BUT the post I was responding to. Is that really so difficult to understand? And it really does pain me to be such a jerk like this, but I don't see any other way of getting through that amazingly dense skull of yours.

And if you actually read what's in front of you, you'd see clearly that I wasn't talking about Bush; I was talking about me having to explain myself every. fucking. post.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."