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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada
Miller wants to tear down Gardiner

A report on the future of the Gardiner was released today. Miller is on record as to wanting to tear it down and replace it with a 6 lane boulevard (yeah like thats not a "barrier to the lakeshore) ... Can you say traffic chaos??

ALL THE MORE REASON TO VOTE FOR JANE PITFIELD THIS NOV!

Miller, everytime you open your mouth you confirm even more that you are an idiot.

quote:
Two-Year-Old Report On Future Of Gardiner Expressway Offers Three Options At High Costs
Wednesday September 27, 2006
Normally reading a consultant's report submitted to Toronto City Hall would be like watching the proverbial fly go up the wall.
But keep it a secret and suddenly everyone's interested.

The long awaited and long hidden report on the future of the Gardiner Expressway has finally been released and it offers three separate options - all of which come with a huge cost.

The study targets the elevated part of the roadway running east of Bathurst to West of the Don River.

Among the options that experts are calling the "Three R's":

Replace it
This would involve burying it using tunnels at a cost of $1.3 billion. Another option: tear it down and put in a 10-lane thoroughfare with medians and sidewalks near Spadina for almost $500 million.

Retain It
This would mean relocating some strategic ramps and exits. That would put a $415 million dent in taxpayer wallets.

Remove it
This alternative centres on either expanding the Lakeshore or creating new surface roadways. The price tag for that: $437 for the former and $457 million for the latter.

The report indicates what drivers already know - the Gardiner is already over capacity.

It currently handles three times more volume than it was built for. When construction began in 1955, it was projected 60,000 cars a day would traverse its lanes.

But since the explosion of growth in the suburbs, that's now up to 180,000 - and growing.

The report, which has been kept secret for two years, is expected to play a major role in the November civic election, with both major candidates - David Miller and Jane Pitfield - sharing similar views but coming from opposite sides.

Critics contend Miller has been trying to hide the report to keep it off the campaign trail radar, an allegation he flatly denies.

"Records that come in from other agencies for city staff review happen all the time," he contends. "There are hundreds of records that come in for review ... City staff haven't finished their review and when they do finish their review, they report out. A member of council got interested and asked for the report ... If council wants an outside report, the appropriate procedures is for council to ask for. That's what happened here."

But while he's in favour of seeing the Gardiner removed, he admits there's a problem.

"I've always had the same position," he maintains. "If we could take it down where we are revitalizing from about Yonge Street to Jarvis (Street), that area. If we could take it down, great. But there is no money to do it. And until we find a way to pay for it, it is not on the table."

Miller predicts it's a moot point in any event because an environmental assessment will take three years and an actual decision would be at least another year after that. And he admits his first priority is developing the waterfront, and that's what he intends to concentrate on.

Opponent Jane Pitfield maintains there's no doubt about her position - leave it alone for now.

"The majority of people in this city want the Gardiner to stay exactly where it is," she maintains. "No more of it should come down. It is a major east/west transportation network, and we have no good solution."

Pitfield believes there are more pressing issues that need to be addressed, like crime and garbage. And she believes the public and not politicians should make the ultimate decision on the elevated roadway.

The Canadian Automobile Association likes that idea. Fay Lyons says it's something that should be open for debate.

"If you were to actually look at taking down the Gardiner Expressway, what is going to happen with that expressway-style traffic?" she wonders. "It's going to flush onto residential streets, which causes a big safety concern with the residents of Toronto, and again will force more congestion in the city as well."


But Miller insists you can't take anything to the people without first having a sound business plan in place that includes alternate transportation options - and so far nothing exists.

"We can't go to the people of Toronto with something that's not real," he counters. "Right now there is no business plan and no funding plan for any work to be done on the Gardiner other than routine maintenance."

The report cost $1 million and makes for some heavy reading - it takes up a full seven volumes.


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:21  Canada
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rabbitjoker
aural sadist



Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA

BURY IT.


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Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:27  Canada
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dEsidEL
Fu Man Choonz



Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Below the Belt

quote:
Originally posted by rabbitjoker
BURY IT.




this was just posted in the Waterfront thread.. truly interesting alternative..

http://www.toviaduct.com/Home.html


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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:30  Micronesia-Federal State of
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

yet the viaduct plan wasnt even in the report. Shows what "vision" this city has.

Dismantle it or leave it... some vision


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:31  Canada
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dEsidEL
Fu Man Choonz



Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Below the Belt

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
yet the viaduct plan wasnt even in the report. Shows what "vision" this city has.

Dismantle it or leave it... some vision




makes you wonder if Miller/Pitfield are even aware of this viable option..

maybe we should email the TO Star editor about it


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Palm Trees > Pine Trees , Sand > Snow

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:32  Micronesia-Federal State of
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smuncky
Architect



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: richmond hill, ontario, canada

quote:
Originally posted by dEsidEL


makes you wonder if Miller/Pitfield are even aware of this viable option..





agreed. i dont think alot of people know that there IS another option.


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"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go.” -Alex Steffen

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:33  Russia
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by dEsidEL


makes you wonder if Miller/Pitfield are even aware of this viable option..

maybe we should email the TO Star editor about it


im sure its been brought to their attention. But yes emailing support to everyone involved would be a good idea


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:34  Canada
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Time2Burn
TOTA Beacon



Registered: Mar 2001
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by rabbitjoker
BURY IT.


I agree. Its a monstrosity. A 6 lane road? Well yeah i guess something needs to replace the thoughrofare. Maybe some public transit would help aswell?

Lemme get something straight mr TOTA PM. You want waterfront improvemnt but think the gardiner should stay?

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:35  South Africa
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smuncky
Architect



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: richmond hill, ontario, canada

btw, this is where i found the link to it, http://spacing.ca/wire/?p=1121

spacing really has some interesting articles now and again. i encourage everyone to visit it sometime if they are interested in our city.


___________________
Deviant Art - Smuncky
My Photos on Flickr
If anyone wants to share their clubbing/nightlife pics go to Toronto Nightlife
"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go.” -Alex Steffen

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:36  Russia
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MarkT
Automatic Static



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by rabbitjoker
BURY IT.


agreed...but that's just my opinion. I'm not terribly sympathetic to traffic these days, lol.

IMHO, Pitfield is the one who sounds like an idiot. I could care less what "the majority of the people" want. The majority of the people are NOT urban planning experts and base their opinon on...their opinion.

Letting the people decide is idiotic. the general population has zero knowledge of the impact of whatever their opinion would be...that's why we elect politicians who in turn commission EXPERTS to conduct feasibility, business and environmental studies.

I don't think Miller sounds stupid at all when He says that the point is currently moot becuase there is no money and that it's pointless bringing it to the people because there IS no business plan in place. How do you let the people decide when there IS NO BUSINESS PLAN? This study is old and hasn't been updated.

"Hey guys, what do you think we should do. Here are three options, but the cost info for each may be completely off base because this study is already more than two years old".

Pitfield, in saying there are more important issues like crime (bullshit, but the paranoid public will eat that up) and garbage, is sidestepping the issue...crime and garbage is 100% irrelevant to what to do with the Gardiner and I expect that our city council can tackle ALL of these issues. If they can't, then she is SUPPORTING Miller's assertion that the point is moot, since there is no money and no business plan, isn't she?

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:41  Canada
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nusty
Congrats Andrew/ Hillary!



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: LA and still a little bit of Toronto

Guys I think we start to relax... I mean after all, scientists did just teleport a beam of light recently, at this pace it's only about 25 years before we should be able to do it to people and then we won't need cars. Then we can just forget all about this problem. I, for one, see teleportation as the future long before they ever finish a new Gardiner project.


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Dave (aka: Upgrade- live pa)
quote:
Originally posted by Lightshow
i wear sunglasses for the same reason everybody wears them in a club. 1: people look cool in sunglasses
2: it gets awefully bright as the night progresses

*nusty does not wear sunglasses at night, they make it hard to see and you could trip

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:41  Canada
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Time2Burn
I agree. Its a monstrosity. A 6 lane road? Well yeah i guess something needs to replace the thoughrofare. Maybe some public transit would help aswell?

Lemme get something straight mr TOTA PM. You want waterfront improvemnt but think the gardiner should stay?


For now yes. I tend to agree with Pitfield that there are more pressing issues in the city. The ridiculously high tax rate thats scaring people and business away for one. The panhandling problem for another.

Leave the gardiner alone for now. Lets fix things that need fixing instead of just asthetics pleasing ideas. BTW the real "wall" to the lakefront is not a highway that people can easily walk under. Its the wall of condos that border the lake with no public access. Why does everyone seem to miss that point?

I support the viaduct option the most but right now we simply cant afford any of it.


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Sep-27-2006 21:43  Canada
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