I've got some issues with getting my kick and bass line to fit together ( it sounds muddy ).I've read through the tutorials, but I can't seem to get the hang of EQing my kick and bass right.

I've read in a few that i should be cuting away from 200 - 800 hz to clean it up, but its not working. should I be boosting one, and cutting the other, or boosting /cutting both? or is this a volume issue?

What are some basic rules from making the bassline fit with the kick?

There is really no cut and dry answer for these problems, and that's what makes production so fun. It really depends on the types of sounds you are using, and one solution for one set of sounds doesn't always work for another set of sounds. Are they both taking up the same frequencies in the sonic spectrum? If you're using a kick with a lot of bass, make sure your bassline doesn't have too much low frequencies in it. On the other hand, if you're bassline is very deep, try to have a kick that doesn't have a lot of deep boom to it. Sometimes EQ can only take you so far, and if it still doesn't work you should consider changing the samples you are using. Although it's true that a lot of muddiness can occur in the 200-800 hz area, cutting away from these frequencies doesn't always fix the problem.

Put your bassline on SOLO, then add a spectrum analyzer to the channel that the kickdrum is going through; make sure you have whatever plugin you choose zoomed into the low end (0-1500Hz) if possible.

Now, play it, and watch what frequencies the kickdrum occupies; you'll see which spots the kickdrum excels at, and can now notch the bassline around it.

Add a parametric EQ to your bassline, and cut in the spots that you saw that your kick sat in. Usually this is 80Hz, 250Hz, and sometimes other spots. Only cut your bassline a tiny bit at first, and keep increasing how much the EQ cuts until you hit the "sweet spot" where the kick just seems to suddenly fit. I wouldn't suggest cutting more than 0.6 to 0.8, since that generates a nice curve, but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes (more than 3 dB cuts are very extreme though and could ruin your sound).

I would sidechain them a little (as in, a LITTLE) to increase the effect of the kickdrum.

Also, you can add a EQ to your master channel and cut all frequencies about 16000Hz and cut all frequencies below 40Hz. This may eliminate unnecessary instrument hum.

In my opinion you should lay low on the compression, but once again, do what you gotta do to get a sound you enjoy.

Good luck... hope this helped a little bit.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Also, you can add a EQ to your master channel and cut all frequencies about 16000Hz and cut all frequencies below 40Hz. This may eliminate unnecessary instrument hum.

I wouldn't recommend doing that, cutting those freqs will cut a little bit of the higher freqs too.
Do it on each single track you suspect to have humming.

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Aside from EQing, ( which is most likely the best way to fix this ), you can also try and tackle the problem at its source.

Is the bass playing at the same time as the kick? If so, does it need to be? Does the bass work as well if you lower the volume while the kick plays?
Is the bass and kick peaking at the same frequency? If your resonance is up on the bass synth trying changing the cutoff frequency. You might find a bass sound that is just as good, yet doesn't overlap the kick as much.
If you can't get the eq right, you can even try ducking the bassline to lower the volume during the kick's peak. Look up the billion threads about sidechain compression to help you out here.
Alternatively you can group the kick + bassline and compress the bejesus out of them. Whichever wins, wins. Not the most technical solution but sometimes it sounds great.
Good luck!

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What pho mo said. I've been dealing with this issue too. The easiest solution is no bass note on top of the kicks. The other solution is to lower the volume of the bass note slightly when it's on top of a kick. Me, I prefer the first solution, and besides, I think alternating the bass and kick makes for a better groove, where everything have it's on place. I haven't felt like messing with EQ's and changing frequencies, not yet. You need to really know what you are doing before you do that.

wow, some of the phattest grooves i've ever heard was with a bassline ontop of the kick...

that tip about using a spectrum analyser checking what freqs it uses and eq after is quite good indeed...combine that with a well trained ear and you shouldnt have any problems getting it togheter

use a sidechain compressor

a sample would be nice...

make sure u eventually cut away some of the bass's lows as especially those might interfere with the kick.
Dont forget to turn the kick up...it should be louder than the bassline.
then again the quality is also very dependant on the structure/rythm of the bassline and last but not least the instrument and kickdrum u were using.
in some cases kick + bass will never sound right so one of em must be changed.

quote:

Originally posted by expanded wow, some of the phattest grooves i've ever heard was with a bassline ontop of the kick...

Very true actually. I was just offering a simple solution. Maybe it's time I started using frequency analizing and EQ. Been shying away from it because it seems a little advanced, but I guess it won't take that long to figure out. The frequency analyzer in FL looks odd though. Maybe I can find a VST one.

Oh yeah, what is sidesplit compression? Also, do you guys only use a frequency analizer when your ears detect a frequency conflict? Seems that would be the way it's done, instead of analyzing every instrument.

UPDATE: I found a decent frequency analyzer at http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/bs-spectrum/

OK, I think I did it. I set up a simple test. I used the analyzer as a basic reference, and then by ear I got the kick and bass to not clash by cutting some low end off the kick. On the FL parametric EQ, it was the 250 range I cut back on a bit. Won't work in every situation of course, but I get the idea.

Last edited by zodiac9 on Nov-17-2005 at 02:02

quote:

Originally posted by tranceman78 There is really no cut and dry answer for these problems, and that's what makes production so fun. It really depends on the types of sounds you are using, and one solution for one set of sounds doesn't always work for another set of sounds. Are they both taking up the same frequencies in the sonic spectrum?

IMHO tranceman has supplied the best answer to what is a very open question and is for me an explanation of sound engineering which I am studying ATM at HND level (good for me I know, so what).

Many people will give you their own idea of a solution to a problem they have encountered themselves and most likely using different equipment and more importantly different sounds and or fx. The chances of someone else using exactly the same sounds, fx and equipment as you is more than remote unless you tell us what exactly you are in fact using so it can be recreated by someone else then tried out. Sorry to be like that but it really does matter when it comes to the specifics of the actual sounds you are trying to fit together.

quote:

There is really no cut and dry answer for these problems, and that's what makes production so fun. It really depends on the types of sounds you are using, and one solution for one set of sounds doesn't always work for another set of sounds.

You should find a solution to your question via experimentation. That's really all you can do along with applying some basic principles.

As tranceman78 says if both the kick and the line are using or producing the same frequency at the same time you have problems. This principle can be applied to other areas of sound which I won't go into.

Use spectrum analyzing to see where each sound produces the same or overlapping frequencies then eq one or the other to cut out the offending frequency.

Alternatively use a different kick with a different timbre or use a different line with a different timbre.

Adjusting the envelopes on either or both may also help depending on the sounds.

Hope that helps.

P.S, problems like this also occur when recording your average band in a studio. Drum kits especially. This is why EQ is used to make each instrument seperate from the others whilst maintaining the togetherness of the band as if they were all playing together at the same time. Seperation is usually the goal in the studio but you can't always record each instrument seperately. Bear in mind that sound engineering is an art form in itself and how you want to engineer your track is just as impostant as how you go about creating its individual sounds and melodies.

P.P.S, If you are making up stuff on your own without another person this means you're the artist, engineer and producer all in one, you are your own boss so have some fun. I know I do.

Last edited by Kev K on Nov-18-2005 at 05:57