Anyway...

@"Please exchange these chips for cash"

So your Teacher really said that about the U.S. killing Native Americans and comparing it to Saddam's killing of Kurds, etc.?

You're right; All this other stuff about Native Americans did happen well out of our lifetime. I mean, how far back does one have to go to find evidence of persecution? And why does it have to stop on one race or people once you do find some? I'm sure ALL races and peoples have been persecuted at one point or another, and could make a case for sympathy.

I don't really think this is the reason we went to war over there anyway, but that aside, I too am tired of people in the U.S. at least who don't live in the here and now, preferring to stay un-assimilated because of long-dead relatives who fought each other.

Last edited by donnybrasco on Feb-16-2006 at 20:50

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Lets say ONE of the reasons we invaded Iraq because Saddam was a brutal dictator who needed to be brought to justice.

quote:

U.S. State Department Policy Planning Study #23, 1948: " Our real task... is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity [U.S. military- economic supremacy]... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming... We should cease to talk about vague and...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization... we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better." George Kennan, Director of Policy Planning. U.S. State Department. 1948

A list of dictators supported by the US, many of them quite brutal:

Dictator - Country

Abacha, General Sani - Nigeria
Amin, Idi - Uganda
Banzer, Colonel Hugo - Bolivia
Batista, Fulgencio - Cuba
Bolkiah, Sir Hassanal - Brunei
Botha, P.W. - South Africa
Branco, General Humberto - Brazil
Cedras, Raoul - Haiti
Cerezo, Vinicio - Guatemala
Chiang Kai-Shek - Taiwan
Cordova, Roberto Suazo - Honduras
Christiani, Alfredo - El Salvador
Diem, Ngo Dihn - Vietnam
Doe, General Samuel - Liberia
Duvalier, Francois - Haiti
Duvalier, Jean Claude - Haiti
Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King - Saudi Arabia
Franco, General Francisco - Spain
Hassan II - Morocco
Marcos, Ferdinand - Philippines
Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez - El Salvador
Mobutu Sese Seko - Zaire
Montt, General Efrain Rios - Guatemala
Noriega, General Manuel - Panama
Ozal, Turgut - Turkey
Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza - Iran
Papadopoulos, George - Greece
Park Chung Hee - South Korea
Pinochet, General Augusto - Chile
Pol Pot - Cambodia
Rabuka, General Sitiveni - Fiji
Montt, General Efrain Rios - Guatemala
Salassie, Halie - Ethiopia
Salazar, Antonio de Oliveira - Portugal
Somoza, Anastasio Jr. - Nicaragua
Somoza, Anastasio, Sr. - Nicaragua
Smith, Ian - Rhodesia
Stroessner, Alfredo - Paraguay
Suharto, General - Indonesia
Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas - Dominican Republic
Videla, General Jorge Rafael - Argentina
Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed - Pakistan

Yes, clearly "one of the reasons" we invaded Iraq was to remove a brutal dictator we supported in the past and sold chemical weapons to which he used to gas the kurds and the US turned a blind eye to it. Surely our track record reflects our desire for spreading/preserving democracy abroad.

EDIT:

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Feb-16-2006 at 20:51

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z A list of dictators supported by the US, many of them quite brutal:

Many.. not all.

I know we still support shit leaders, putin being the worst, IMO. Yes, something has to be done about it.

But the comparison that is making me angry is to the native americans.

___________________
"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Yes, clearly "one of the reasons" we invaded Iraq was to remove a brutal dictator we supported in the past and sold chemical weapons to which he used to gas the kurds and the US turned a blind eye to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Lets say ONE of the reasons we invaded Iraq because Saddam was a brutal dictator who needed to be brought to justice.

"Lets say" hints at a hypothetical question.

And, we weren't the only ones to suplly Iraq with weapons. But two wrongs don't make a right.

We also supplied both Iran, and Iraq during the war, as did the soviets, and brazil (brazil, wtf?) Which is kind of sad because it's kind of like elementary school kids pushing two kids to fight.

___________________
"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

If you were to justify his actions wouldn't that mean something along the lines or letting him off with them rather than perhaps judging him?

Either way, Sadam wasn't the reason given to the world for the invasion so it doesn't matter.

___________________
If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

You can justify whatever you want as long as you have a rightful cause, which you didn't with Iraq so it doesn't really matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Many.. not all. I know we still support shit leaders, putin being the worst, IMO. Yes, something has to be done about it. But the comparison that is making me angry is to the native americans.

Don't pay attention to that list mate. Many of those were supported before they turned their true face on.

As presidents, Amin started as the darling of the U.K, Israel and acceptable to USA. He became their enemy later.

That was the first one that struck me, because I researched the Butcher of Uganda before. So, that list is unreliable already.

___________________
My SpaceMySpaceMUSIC
Anti-Purple Alliance.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Don't pay attention to that list mate. Many of those were supported before they turned their true face on.

yeah wtf

I hate liars

___________________
"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Either way, Sadam wasn't the reason given to the world for the invasion so it doesn't matter.

He wasn't? Who was in charge over there?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew You can justify whatever you want as long as you have a rightful cause, which you didn't with Iraq so it doesn't really matter.

Sounds subjective to me, man. Everybody's got opinions.